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Post by Angelo on Oct 2, 2017 21:21:03 GMT -5
Does anyone know if Tom Petty died? They took him off life support and Sheriff department reported him dead but about an hour later rescinded it. He's still hanging on but brain dead.
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Post by Baph on Oct 2, 2017 23:13:34 GMT -5
I wonder if amphetemines are going to be discovered. Just a gut feeling... old man moves out to vegas with money, starts taking little pills, spends a month averaging 2 hours of non-restorative sleep a night... begins to break down. Just saying, shot in dark. I've seen people, basically normal, Spend 5 days awake on crank and be absolutely dangerous Dude was winning more than losing, winning up to 250k in a single outing, lived there for a long time, and it looks like this was planned for at least a month. Seems a bit too organized and settled for amphetamines. Also wouldn't you assume they'd find some or evidence of some in the room if he was holed up there for 3 days? That's the kind of news they'd love to release right away, especially with Sessions as AG.... DRUGS MAKE GUY GO BAD I'm trying to think of another example where absolutely NO motive was evident, NO profiles match-up, and NO evidence leaks out to the press in the following days. Can anyone else think of such an example as this?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 23:23:40 GMT -5
Maybe this guy was just a sick fuck and wanted to go big... much like an arsonist who lights a fire and then drives to a vantage point to watch the melee unfold. I get the need for people to put a reason to the event, but is it that strange to think that he was just a ticking time bomb and in living the life of a degenerate gambler, nobody saw him slipping?
And to the people that are saying gun laws will prevent this sort of thing, there were 4x the murders in Chicago compared to Las Vegas in 2016, and Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the Country. There are already enough assault rifles in existence to arm 150 million people, and if you think it's hard to stop drugs coming in to the country from mexico, try stopping something that doesn't smell any different than the metal your car is made of.
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Post by Baph on Oct 2, 2017 23:24:24 GMT -5
A couple observations.
When gun fire breaks out, many people laugh, stand up, gawk, and even upon a second volley when some "realness" kicks in, nobody moves or attempts to flee. It's nearly two full minutes and maybe the 4th volley before people start actively attempting to leave. Very few exits, poorly lit, no visible security, no announcement to evacuate, just left on your own in a crowd of 20,000 with tall fence on all sides and a sniper in a nest with 16 rifles and fully auto conversions with 30-round mags trying to get body count famous before offing himself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 23:39:25 GMT -5
I think there is a combination of booze, people not knowing where it was coming from, being in a crowd and just acting like sheep, and also shock making it hard to realize what is happening. You see a gun pointed at you it is a natural reaction to panic, when you hear something like this but can't decipher what is happening... you don't even know where to run to.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 2, 2017 23:44:37 GMT -5
A couple observations. When gun fire breaks out, many people laugh, stand up, gawk, and even upon a second volley when some "realness" kicks in, nobody moves or attempts to flee. It's nearly two full minutes and maybe the 4th volley before people start actively attempting to leave. Very few exits, poorly lit, no visible security, no announcement to evacuate, just left on your own in a crowd of 20,000 with tall fence on all sides and a sniper in a nest with 16 rifles and fully auto conversions with 30-round mags trying to get body count famous before offing himself. 23! Plus another 19 at his home, and so far nobody who has spoken about him, neighbors or family thought he even had a single one. Maybe he really did just snap, and to me that is scarier than antifa, ISIL, bitter about divorce/gambling.
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Post by Baph on Oct 2, 2017 23:55:44 GMT -5
I think there is a combination of booze, people not knowing where it was coming from, being in a crowd and just acting like sheep, and also shock making it hard to realize what is happening. You see a gun pointed at you it is a natural reaction to panic, when you hear something like this but can't decipher what is happening... you don't even know where to run to. True, it's very easy to say "I would have" but it's different when you're there and shocked/confused and nobody else is reacting so you second guess yourself, but just based on world history in the past 10-20 years, if I'm in a crowd and I hear gunfire like that, I've got to think I'm not going to pick my ass and stand up to gawk at it. Dude you know what it is. And after two volleys of 30 rounds each you damn sure know what it is. Security should be on the stage mic immediately telling folks to calmly disperse, cutting venue lights, and helping people toward exists . . . within the first 60 seconds this should be happening. And on an individual and group level, you ought to know by now what being in a crowd when a bomb/gun/speeding vehicle starts doing the terrorist thing means you need to react, immediately and smartly.
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Post by slaytan on Oct 3, 2017 7:40:01 GMT -5
I think there is a combination of booze, people not knowing where it was coming from, being in a crowd and just acting like sheep, and also shock making it hard to realize what is happening. You see a gun pointed at you it is a natural reaction to panic, when you hear something like this but can't decipher what is happening... you don't even know where to run to. True, it's very easy to say "I would have" but it's different when you're there and shocked/confused and nobody else is reacting so you second guess yourself, but just based on world history in the past 10-20 years, if I'm in a crowd and I hear gunfire like that, I've got to think I'm not going to pick my ass and stand up to gawk at it. Dude you know what it is. And after two volleys of 30 rounds each you damn sure know what it is. Security should be on the stage mic immediately telling folks to calmly disperse, cutting venue lights, and helping people toward exists . . . within the first 60 seconds this should be happening. And on an individual and group level, you ought to know by now what being in a crowd when a bomb/gun/speeding vehicle starts doing the terrorist thing means you need to react, immediately and smartly. I know that I've been shitfaced enough that I would have just stood there guffawing for an extended period. Normally, or often, I may be the "one guy in a crowd" to notice/ react, but at least 50% of the time in a festival setting I'm a typical bovine
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Post by slaytan on Oct 3, 2017 7:44:08 GMT -5
Also: the Mandalay Bay security weren't lax, they were doing their jobs properly. If you're staying at a hotel, moving several bags to your room is typical behavior, and security would have been stupid to demand to search the bags of a retiree who they have already seen coming on and out all week. When me and the old lady go stay in a resort, we load up the baggage cart with shit 2 times. It's normal hotel behavior
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Post by slaytan on Oct 3, 2017 7:56:19 GMT -5
One more thing kind of interesting. I'm pretty sure I either fixed this guy's screen or at least gave him an estimate. Nothing sticks out about him except his name, and that he lived in Viera cements it. I dominate that market, especially a few years ago
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Post by matt on Oct 3, 2017 10:15:00 GMT -5
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Post by ocmmafan on Oct 3, 2017 10:38:59 GMT -5
Also: the Mandalay Bay security weren't lax, they were doing their jobs properly. If you're staying at a hotel, moving several bags to your room is typical behavior, and security would have been stupid to demand to search the bags of a retiree who they have already seen coming on and out all week. When me and the old lady go stay in a resort, we load up the baggage cart with shit 2 times. It's normal hotel behavior While you have a point you are missing a HUGE issue. Vegas ain't Orlando or some resort place like most in the world. Do you know how much money Mandalay Bay has on it's property in cash at any given time? More cash than every bank in Vegas put together within 5 miles of that resort (assumption but I would wager I am accurate). Do you know inventive people committing fraud are at places like Mandalay Bay? Security is a multi-billion dollar business in Vegas because it's required. They watch and tape everything at all times, 24/7 and 99.9% of us have no clue. The chances of robbing a casino are zero because they are insanely careful. They have full time, 24/7 staff sitting in rooms watching monitors all day and night for suspicious activity. And who says they need to search them? They have access to the room and the room was cleaned multiple times but housekeeping didn't notice anything? Can't hide shit under beds so where was it all? He lined up 15-20 suitcases? A lot of this remains very questionable.
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Post by ocmmafan on Oct 3, 2017 10:45:37 GMT -5
Dude was winning more than losing, winning up to 250k in a single outing, lived there for a long time, and it looks like this was planned for at least a month. Seems a bit too organized and settled for amphetamines. Also wouldn't you assume they'd find some or evidence of some in the room if he was holed up there for 3 days? That's the kind of news they'd love to release right away, especially with Sessions as AG.... DRUGS MAKE GUY GO BAD I'm trying to think of another example where absolutely NO motive was evident, NO profiles match-up, and NO evidence leaks out to the press in the following days. Can anyone else think of such an example as this? Nope. Hard to figure this thing out.
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 3, 2017 10:53:19 GMT -5
Also: the Mandalay Bay security weren't lax, they were doing their jobs properly. If you're staying at a hotel, moving several bags to your room is typical behavior, and security would have been stupid to demand to search the bags of a retiree who they have already seen coming on and out all week. When me and the old lady go stay in a resort, we load up the baggage cart with shit 2 times. It's normal hotel behavior While you have a point you are missing a HUGE issue. Vegas ain't Orlando or some resort place like most in the world. Do you know how much money Mandalay Bay has on it's property in cash at any given time? More cash than every bank in Vegas put together within 5 miles of that resort (assumption but I would wager I am accurate). Do you know inventive people committing fraud are at places like Mandalay Bay? Security is a multi-billion dollar business in Vegas because it's required. They watch and tape everything at all times, 24/7 and 99.9% of us have no clue. The chances of robbing a casino are zero because they are insanely careful. They have full time, 24/7 staff sitting in rooms watching monitors all day and night for suspicious activity. And who says they need to search them? They have access to the room and the room was cleaned multiple times but housekeeping didn't notice anything? Can't hide shit under beds so where was it all? He lined up 15-20 suitcases? A lot of this remains very questionable. I get what you're saying but as far as luggage, Vegas is very lenient on it. Hell, you can leave your bags at any hotel including ones you're not even staying at. Just check in your back and pick it up whenever you want. You can have two or three huge suitcases packed with shit, ask for a cart and no problem at all. I've been to Vegas more times than I can count. Whenever I have to check out early, I just go check my bags in, fuck around and pick them up before my flight. I'd love to see the room though, the box springs, cleaning ladies don't go through your draws and if you tell them you don't want service for a few days it's not a problem
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Post by ocmmafan on Oct 3, 2017 11:09:05 GMT -5
While you have a point you are missing a HUGE issue. Vegas ain't Orlando or some resort place like most in the world. Do you know how much money Mandalay Bay has on it's property in cash at any given time? More cash than every bank in Vegas put together within 5 miles of that resort (assumption but I would wager I am accurate). Do you know inventive people committing fraud are at places like Mandalay Bay? Security is a multi-billion dollar business in Vegas because it's required. They watch and tape everything at all times, 24/7 and 99.9% of us have no clue. The chances of robbing a casino are zero because they are insanely careful. They have full time, 24/7 staff sitting in rooms watching monitors all day and night for suspicious activity. And who says they need to search them? They have access to the room and the room was cleaned multiple times but housekeeping didn't notice anything? Can't hide shit under beds so where was it all? He lined up 15-20 suitcases? A lot of this remains very questionable. I get what you're saying but as far as luggage, Vegas is very lenient on it. Hell, you can leave your bags at any hotel including ones you're not even staying at. Just check in your back and pick it up whenever you want. You can have two or three huge suitcases packed with shit, ask for a cart and no problem at all. I've been to Vegas more times than I can count. Whenever I have to check out early, I just go check my bags in, fuck around and pick them up before my flight. I'd love to see the room though, the box springs, cleaning ladies don't go through your draws and if you tell them you don't want service for a few days it's not a problem We were just breaking down 223s and you can probably put 10 in a suitcase. Can wheel 1000 round case of ammo in a carry on. Hmm - maybe I'm overthinking it.
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 11:33:42 GMT -5
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 11:34:19 GMT -5
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Post by matt on Oct 3, 2017 11:41:37 GMT -5
Dude was winning more than losing, winning up to 250k in a single outing, lived there for a long time, and it looks like this was planned for at least a month. Seems a bit too organized and settled for amphetamines. Also wouldn't you assume they'd find some or evidence of some in the room if he was holed up there for 3 days? That's the kind of news they'd love to release right away, especially with Sessions as AG.... DRUGS MAKE GUY GO BAD I'm trying to think of another example where absolutely NO motive was evident, NO profiles match-up, and NO evidence leaks out to the press in the following days. Can anyone else think of such an example as this? Sandy hook? Can someone please share some Sandy hook crime scene photos...the ones with blood and dead bodies? ...not because I enjoy death...but because I'm a natural born skeptic and i dont believe it happened. And yes, I'm sure drunk ass, Oldy McMoldly Pants pulled this off ALL on his lonesome...
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 11:47:27 GMT -5
No, Sandy Hook absolutely does not apply. There was a connection to the school, a deeply mentally ill shooter in his 20s who was a shut in and idolized spree killers. He was also on powerful anti-depressant and psychotropic drugs. That fits every profile. This was a millionaire real estate investor in his mid 60s who liked to travel and gamble and drink and get laid. Nothing has emerged from his computer, social media, or friends/family. That is incedibly unusual. We don't have anything even approaching a motive at this point. This is like that scene in The Jerk where he says "someone is shooting at these cans". That's how much we know right now. The largest mass shooting in US history and we have no motive, no profile, and no leads.
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Post by matt on Oct 3, 2017 12:43:30 GMT -5
Pics or it didn't happen...
I can find pics of the dead Colombine shooters, pics of the dead people at the Bataclan theatre...etc
But what I can't find is pics of the Sandy Hook Bodies, blood....
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 13:18:21 GMT -5
Pics or it didn't happen... I can find pics of the dead Colombine shooters, pics of the dead people at the Bataclan theatre...etc But what I can't find is pics of the Sandy Hook Bodies, blood.... I'd assume that has something to do with the fact that they were all 3yr olds with their fucking heads blown off instead of a bunch of drunk adults at a night club. Regardless, that's not my point. The shooter's MO and profile is my point.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 13:23:53 GMT -5
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 13:23:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 14:22:23 GMT -5
The surveillance footage from the casino I'd be most interested to see is the footage that they would have of the hallway leading to his room. As OC said, it's got to be likely that they have that footage.
I'd like to see if anybody exited his room after the shooting stopped.
Because the lack of finding on motive so far makes me suspect there was something more to this.
How do we know that this 60 something year old guy wasn't already dead when the shooting started and is nothing more than a perfect scapegoat?
So far there is too much shit in this that does not add up. Especially considering how far removed we are from the actual attack now, and the amount of investigation that must have occurred already- seems to have brought up little to nothing.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 14:25:05 GMT -5
The surveillance footage from the casino I'd be most interested to see is the footage that they would have of the hallway leading to his room. As OC said, it's got to be likely that they have that footage. I'd like to see if anybody exited his room after the shooting stopped. Because the lack of finding on motive so far makes me suspect there was something more to this. How do we know that this 60 something year old guy wasn't already dead when the shooting started and is nothing more than a perfect scapegoat? So far there is too much shit in this that does not add up. Especially considering how far removed we are from the actual attack now, and the amount of investigation that must have occurred already- seems to have brought up little to nothing. The entrances were barricaded to the point they needed the explosives to get into the room. If someone did leave, that was some of the fastest solo barricading to have ever happened and I don't think there was a long enough gap in the shooting to pull that off.
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Post by MMAJim on Oct 3, 2017 15:00:41 GMT -5
If there is a conspiracy, I would think they'd have some dummied up hallway footage at the ready. There is always a balance between mass control conspiracy and individual madman. I think either is plausible. I've said for a long time that I'm surprised, in a disappointing and sick way, that this *hadn't* already happened. It makes too much sense for these attacks to happen for a perch.
Closest thing we have to me is the MD snipers from years ago. This is obviously ramped up version of sniper attack.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 15:55:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 15:56:48 GMT -5
The surveillance footage from the casino I'd be most interested to see is the footage that they would have of the hallway leading to his room. As OC said, it's got to be likely that they have that footage. I'd like to see if anybody exited his room after the shooting stopped. Because the lack of finding on motive so far makes me suspect there was something more to this. How do we know that this 60 something year old guy wasn't already dead when the shooting started and is nothing more than a perfect scapegoat? So far there is too much shit in this that does not add up. Especially considering how far removed we are from the actual attack now, and the amount of investigation that must have occurred already- seems to have brought up little to nothing. The entrances were barricaded to the point they needed the explosives to get into the room. If someone did leave, that was some of the fastest solo barricading to have ever happened and I don't think there was a long enough gap in the shooting to pull that off. The door was held shut with a chair under the doorknob. Put the chair in the right spot, open the door, hold the chair flush to the door, as the doors closing let it lean, by the time the door is shut the chair is under the knob. And you closed it from the outside. This is basic anarchist's cookbook stuff. And until they show us the notes, and until they show us the footage of him shooting, I'm not going to buy the whole story being pushed by the media right now.
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Post by PatSox on Oct 3, 2017 16:02:31 GMT -5
Leave to a good Boston lad to say the best thing after this...... "To those who lost friends and loved ones—I’m so sorry. I know there are no words that can bring comfort but please know that the world is behind you.
To the victims waking up in a hospital right now wondering how life will ever be the same... I know your pain. The most important advice I can give is to remember that healing your mind is just as important as healing your physical, visible injuries. It took me too many years and dark moments to realize that and it is so, so important. You will walk again. You will laugh again. You will dance again. You will live again.
Please consider making a gift to the Las Vegas Victims Fund. Support like this is what got me through-every little bit counts in the days ahead."
Jeff Bauman
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Post by peAk on Oct 3, 2017 16:10:51 GMT -5
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