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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:25:36 GMT -5
How did this cat from OU get invited>? I realize I'm a casual fan, but I have really never even heard from him outside of a couple of gimmicks. There are literally 50 other players that I would have thought would go before him. I'm no FSU fan but no dalvin cook? That guy was a beast this year, and unlike some of these Bama RBs that have won, he performed against the best teams that he faced.
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Post by Baph on Dec 7, 2016 0:36:38 GMT -5
You're referencing Westbrook I assume. It's a fair question. He was Blitnikoff finalist. He's a very good receiver. A nightmare in the open field. Very agile and darty. He put up some good numbers and had some huge games. I would agree with you that I don't think he or Baker had Heisman type years. Westbrook missed a big chunk of the season and Baker had a couple pretty bad games (Houston, Ohio St, Texas), and seemed unfocused at times this season, though still showed flashes of his brilliance fairly often. But my bigger question would be who are these 50 other players? Nobody is coming to mind for me. One of those years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 11:27:39 GMT -5
You're referencing Westbrook I assume. It's a fair question. He was Blitnikoff finalist. He's a very good receiver. A nightmare in the open field. Very agile and darty. He put up some good numbers and had some huge games. I would agree with you that I don't think he or Baker had Heisman type years. Westbrook missed a big chunk of the season and Baker had a couple pretty bad games (Houston, Ohio St, Texas), and seemed unfocused at times this season, though still showed flashes of his brilliance fairly often. But my bigger question would be who are these 50 other players? Nobody is coming to mind for me. One of those years. I meant Peppers. I typed OU but meant MU. Hence me saying referencing the "gimmicks" of putting him at RB and KR. It just felt forced to me, I understand he's a good player. Just kind of over the Michigan love, so I'm sure I'm jaded. I agree about Westbrook, I'd take him over Mayfield. I only got to watch a little of OU this year but he's a stud.
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Post by sooner2 on Dec 7, 2016 12:05:35 GMT -5
Big day in cfb news yesterday. Ruhle takes Baylor. Good hire for them. Oregon wanted him, and promptly hired willie taggart from south Florida instead. Don't know much about taggartbother than some interviews I've heard. Seems like a good guy evidently a solid recruiter.
OU OC evidently knocked it out of the park in his interview at Houston.
Kiffin keeps getting named in coach searches and might not be available on sidelines for semi final game.
Sadly rasham salaam looks to have killed himself. Dude was only 42 and won a heisman and had a great rookie season for bears before starting decline.
Also, ok Supreme Court ruled that mixon video of him punching the woman at sandwich shop must be released to public soon. From what I've heard... it is shocking to see. Will see how this impacts him and the team. I would be pretty certain he will declare for the draft and leave... which is probably what OU brass had in kind when they handled the situation years ago.
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Post by Baph on Dec 7, 2016 13:18:06 GMT -5
You're referencing Westbrook I assume. It's a fair question. He was Blitnikoff finalist. He's a very good receiver. A nightmare in the open field. Very agile and darty. He put up some good numbers and had some huge games. I would agree with you that I don't think he or Baker had Heisman type years. Westbrook missed a big chunk of the season and Baker had a couple pretty bad games (Houston, Ohio St, Texas), and seemed unfocused at times this season, though still showed flashes of his brilliance fairly often. But my bigger question would be who are these 50 other players? Nobody is coming to mind for me. One of those years. I meant Peppers. I typed OU but meant MU. Hence me saying referencing the "gimmicks" of putting him at RB and KR. It just felt forced to me, I understand he's a good player. Just kind of over the Michigan love, so I'm sure I'm jaded. I agree about Westbrook, I'd take him over Mayfield. I only got to watch a little of OU this year but he's a stud. Aha, gotcha. Yes, agree. I think in year's past there's been a more clear-cut winner and more dynamic players. Interesting that the best team in the nation doesn't have strong Heisman candidates. Tells you something about their style of play and depth.
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Post by Baph on Dec 7, 2016 13:30:42 GMT -5
Big day in cfb news yesterday. Ruhle takes Baylor. Good hire for them. Oregon wanted him, and promptly hired willie taggart from south Florida instead. Don't know much about taggartbother than some interviews I've heard. Seems like a good guy evidently a solid recruiter. OU OC evidently knocked it out of the park in his interview at Houston. Kiffin keeps getting named in coach searches and might not be available on sidelines for semi final game. Sadly rasham salaam looks to have killed himself. Dude was only 42 and won a heisman and had a great rookie season for bears before starting decline. Also, ok Supreme Court ruled that mixon video of him punching the woman at sandwich shop must be released to public soon. From what I've heard... it is shocking to see. Will see how this impacts him and the team. I would be pretty certain he will declare for the draft and leave... which is probably what OU brass had in kind when they handled the situation years ago. Kiffin's ability to assess what's happening and make smart adjustments was in rare form in Bedlam. He'd be a hot hire right now. I'd love to have him. I'd take Bryles Jr, too. Hell, I'd take Charlie Strong for DC. I know he's taken some hits this year, but part of that is a deep cultural problem in the Tex recruiting, AD, and donor class. Also think he's a DC not a head coach, and would thrive in that environment. The timing on the Mixon tape is embarrassingly conspicuous. Literally 3-4 days after the last game of the season they decide to magically release a tape they've been sitting on for two years. Have no idea what to expect, but it can't be good. Something like this is tayer made to go viral and garner some massive negative attention that rivals will use in recruiting visits with mama and her high school senior for years to come. Baylor just learned a hard lesson about turning a blind eye to the indiscretions of freak talent. Happy with the bowl match-ups I've seen. Hoping teams come in fresh and motivated and we get some killer holiday season bowl games. Don't see anyone derailing Alabama this year. Also happy with the playoff 4. Actually think Washington might be the 2nd best team in the playoff. That Ohio St game vs Michigan showed me a lot of issues with the Bucks.
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Post by Baph on Dec 11, 2016 22:25:21 GMT -5
Heisman seemed anti-climactic. A fairly sub-par field overall, and with the way Jackson ended his season the presumed coronation fell flat. Pretty meh.
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Post by sooner2 on Dec 15, 2016 13:00:36 GMT -5
Lots of news in the "silly season".
Oregon hires s Florida coach will taggart
Houston promotes major apple white from within.
Cincy hires Ohio state assistant (and former Ohio state HS wrestling champ) Luke fickell.
Kiffin falls all the way down the pecking order of jobs to Florida Atlantic.
Minnesota suspends 10 players from bowl game.
In a bizarre bit of news... former wake forest asst coach and current radio analyst is naiked for leaking wake forest play information to several to Louisville and perhaps several other opponents.
As far as on fieldmstuff ... first set of bowls start this weekend. Only one that has my interest is sdsu vs Houston. Want to see pumphrey. And Houston #10.
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Post by Baph on Dec 17, 2016 1:22:44 GMT -5
Mixon tape finally hit.
As bad as advertised. Petty true to the standard descriptions going around. One wrinkle for me was that he actually followed the group back into the deli and seemed to be speaking to her clearly gay friend. His testimony was that this group was harassing a group of football players and though his teammates walked away he couldn't let it go. It also appears that she motions him to come over to the table prior to the incident. The testimony indicates that Mixon was badgering her clearly queer friend and using homophobic slurs. There is no audio. The young woman intervenes despite no obvious interaction between her and Mixon (would assume this is action on behalf of her friend), pushes Mixon away. Mixon responds by violently lurching at her with a cocked fist. You can see immediately that he is one seriously dangerous motherfucker. An NFL caliber athlete. A fast twitch freak. The action of his body is almost a blur. She flinches and then awkwardly slaps at him in the most oblivious, obnoxious, cunt sorority girl manner possible, making limp contact around the neck/jaw line, at which point Mixon goes full-on Mike Tyson nuclear bomb right hook to the face with blinding explosive power. It's shocking how fast and devastating his strike is. And I say this as someone who has watched a LOT of fights. Even among UFC LHWs (comparable size to Mixon) the punch is FAAAAST. The impact is tremendous. Cannot imagine the percussion she felt. Fuck. She falls lifeless, bounces her head off the table, and collapses in an unconscious heap on the floor. After regaining consciousness some 30-40 seconds later, she tries to get up twice before successfully returning to her seat. Her face is leaking blood and she has serious lacerations and multiple facial fractures. Frankly, the impact was powerful enough and her fall dangerous enough that she could have been permanently injured or killed.
All legal issues asside (would describe what she did as battery prior to any physical contact from him), seeing the physical mismatch on film is jarring. It's like watching Rumble Johnson unload full force on a 120 lb drunk college girl. Fucking savage. A lot of folks (comment section trolls) seem to think she had it coming. I can't say I wouldn't have shoved her when I was 19, but it's hard to imagine unleashing full power on a girl 1/2 your size. I mean, he literally cracked her skull in three places.
The fact that staff/admin saw this and chose to keep him on board is disgusting. Contrasted with the sweeping action after the SAE fraternity song that got a dozen kids suspended and an entire fraternity shut down and removed from campus permanently, seemingly over night, it's baffling to ponder the naked hypocrisy of the situation. Of hair triggers and blind eyes. What's your 40 time, son? Mixon can terrorize campus. Run from police. Lurch his vehicle at parking attendants that ticket him. Break back in to an apartment he'd been evicted from. Shatter mouthy sorority girl's faces. He's a fucking menace and he can act with near impunity. He's Oklahoma's own Jameis Winston. Do as you will, just win.
Coupled with the recent pattern of behavior involving football athletes being physically violent with women and getting sympathetic treatment from the university, the larger story is pretty dark and compelling, and frankly a much more important discussion to have. DGB, Frank Shannon, Joe Mixon, DeDe Westbrook, etc. This isn't a he said/she said altercation . . . it's a pattern of behavior.
Slumming with troubled kids who are freak athletes is one thing; it's rampant in college football, probably unavoidable to a large extent due to socioeconomic demographics and other factors, but physical violence (including sexual violence) is a hard line, particularly against women, and Big 12 schools are NOT doing a good job of being leaders in this area, Baylor and OU being the primary offenders (at least currently).
Sitting on this for three years, letting this kid become the face of your program, become synonymous with OU football, and then having this video drop just days before the bowl game . . . what a fucking disaster. What a textbook example of how NOT to handle PR, media, and the violent conduct of a student athlete. You deserve every ounce of the media feeding frenzy you're about to endure.
College football . . . get your fucking shit together.
Stoops. Hope you enjoy the conf championship and the moderately good bowl game. Hope it was worth it.
David Boren on your fucking high horse over the SAE song. You fucking clown. You look like a tool for the football program now, and the whole university looks like a life support system for the football machine.
Thayer Evans at SI, you fucking fanboy with your bullshit fucking hit piece. Pick up a mirror, asshole. The big bad boogey man is you.
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Post by Baph on Dec 17, 2016 2:51:16 GMT -5
Now reading up on the 10 suspensions from the Minnesota team. Apparently 10-12 players waited in line to fuck a drunk girl in a bathroom at a party. She's claiming rape, cops decline to press charges, the whole team is threatening to boycott their bowl game claiming the suspension is racially motivated (players were black, girl that got a dozen-man train in the bathroom was white).
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Post by ocmmafan on Dec 17, 2016 11:48:44 GMT -5
Wow on Mixon! Just wow. Impossible to ever live that down and shocking they sat on that forever. Man, what a clusterfuck.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 10:28:45 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused, I haven't followed this Mixon story at all. The captions say that the video on the right was released the media, but the video on the left has never been seen...but there's really nothing important on the video on the left. You see dude punch the chick in the video on the right, so what's new about this, if the video on the right was already available?
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Post by sooner2 on Dec 19, 2016 13:22:26 GMT -5
i've known about this mixon thing for years now. those of us who follow ou closely have known this day was coming. i personally would have kicked him off team and out of school the minute i spoke with him and saw the vid. there have to be team rules. no violence to women. no sexual assualt. no thievery. do all you can to avoid circumstances that could put you in those situations. those rules have to be agreed to up front. no matter what sort of family connection a coach may have with players and no matter what sort of father figure he may try to be; there have to be agreed upon standards of behaviour. ok state acted promptly to kick the star potential kid off the team and out of school a few years ago after that kid was a hero in the bedlam game. they made a statement that that kind of behaviour was not what they wanted their program associated with.
that said, i had not seen the vid. surely; i thought, the vid would be as it had been portrayed and written about. i mean.... for boren, stoops, and dave c to watch it... and act as they did... to keep him on campus with one year suspension, 100 hours of community service, and rehab his image and play it off as a one time mistake from an otherwise good young 18 year old kid from a bad home in oakland... in the face of a drunken, abusive, non-sympathetic woman who shoves him/ slaps him and apparently used emotionally charged racial slurs against him... with his only choice to act in self defense after attempting to break off the encounter??..... surely the video would largely back up large key aspects in their framed claims... wouldn't it???
the things they have in their favor on vid is that it is consistent with the two parties having had conflict before they endtered the place. that was something i was not aware of. mixon says she and her her friends were heckling them at a club before hand. the vid is somewhat consistent with that. when she enters, she is smiling, and very drunk. almost smug appearing. and she motions mixon over to come and speak with her when he walks into the place. but mixon also appears smug. he obviously calls her gay appearing friend some names and turns to walk away, then gets told off by her and then the flinch and the slap/shove from her come up.
both were at fault. i can agree with that. mixon didn't have to enter the place. she didn't have to beckon him over. and she did not have to intiate physical contact. but the punch?? it was not a drunken shove like you see in a barfight over emotion flashes. that was a hook with pivot. a violent targeted KO blow thrown with vicious intent; one that he has obvously thrown many times before. that's a weapon to be thrown when your well being is seriously endangered; not a weapon to be thrown at a woman in a shouting match; no matter what racial slurs were being thrown.
to see him throw that; and to see him looking smug prior to throwing it, i find it hard for boren stoops and c to make the decision they did. it's not the actions of a scared 18 year old kid who acted emotionally when confronted... and not the actions of a kid who tried to disengage and make a reasonable calm things down for even as little as 20 seconds or more before being repeatedly engaged physically by a drunk malicious woman to the point of having no choice but to hit her. not at all. and the whole narrative of them playing him up as a contrite young kid away from his west coast home; doing good with his rehab after having a 'stern' one year suspension from the team with a rebuiling and re education process of having him accompany cops to domestic abuse calls and visit rehab shelters for abused women??? that would be a more believable narrative; if they had released the vid earlier, and if they had had mixon adress the issue publically and had him speak as an advocate about the issue. but they have hidden him. even at the last two bowl press conferences, they have had conference officials bully the press into avoiding questions about the incident. and his recent parking disturbance with the parking officer strongly suggest that he continues to act in a non contrite, entitled manner.
it is clear that their game plan was to sweep this under the rug, and they went through these extraordinary steps to shield him not neccessarily because they honestly believed it was best for him; but because he was a 5 star coveted signee who was definetely capapble of hleping their struggling program once he was on the field. they firmly believed they could keep this minimal, then release it once he had declared his entrance to the draft, then throw their hands up and declare it was no longer a school issue; that they acted with harsh penalties of a year suspension; where other incidents at other schools got kids one game suspension, and that now mixon could practice his speech of being a young one time foolish young man in a racially dissimilar environment making the stupid and woefully regrettable mistake of striking an unsympathetic agressive woman.... and rehearse this speech 32 times in a row while interviewing at the combine in indianapolis.
another issue i struggle with as i mull this over is... what is indeed an appopriate punishment? if i put myself in stoops' shoes, i have to send the message that this is not tolerated at my program, and i kick him off the team and make sure he is expelled from school. i'm fine with that. i disagree with those who say, "you cant kick him out of school. you can't ruin his life over one foolish incident" i disagree because me kicking him off campus does not ruin his life. in this instance, he serves no jail time. and he is (mostly) free to enroll anywhere else and go to school. if he wants to continue football and can find a program to take him, he has the chance to rehab his image and still get an education and still a change to get to the league perhaps.
but the larger issues come up as i consider things further. if i am wrong for keeping him on campus since it sends the wrong message, and since it potentially places women at my P5 school in danger... why do i have the perception that i'm less objective to him going to a jucco? or G5 school? why are those women's potential for harm any less improtant than those women at my school? why am i wrong for keeping him on my campus but some other AD is less wrong for admitting him to his campus in a year or two?? why do we tend to be less objecting to a story where a kid who stumbles from one school, rehabs, makes amends, and goes to jucco then signs with say, LA tech? which brings up the notion of what the just punishment should be, from an ethics standpoint, of hitting a woman? lifetime banishment from all chances at all schools? jucco, g5, p5 or otherwise?? one year banishment? two years? three years and an nfl fre agent try out? what are three bones in a liquored up obnoxoius acting 20 year old woman's face worth? it's a strange ambiguity i notice in many media analysts opinions on the matter, such as those given my trevor mattich this weekend
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Post by ocmmafan on Dec 19, 2016 14:44:27 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused, I haven't followed this Mixon story at all. The captions say that the video on the right was released the media, but the video on the left has never been seen...but there's really nothing important on the video on the left. You see dude punch the chick in the video on the right, so what's new about this, if the video on the right was already available? It's my understanding the video on the right was only recently released to the public. The video on the left is what was circulated years ago. Oklahoma suspended him for a year over this punch but the public never got to actually see this video, which was obviously intentional. It wasn't really newsworthy as I never heard anything about it, and it sounds like you didn't either, which tells me outside of Oklahoma we had little exposure. I think this kid is done. He'll be stigmatized with this by NFL teams and probably screwed himself out of millions of dollars in bonus money as he will slide down and out of the first round. I do think the girl deserves scorn and ridicule for laying her hands on another person. She's clueless like many young women that believe they are untouchable and then run smack into reality. However, she didn't deserve that and unfortunately that 1 second decision to land a haymaker is going to cost this kid a LOT.
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Post by ocmmafan on Dec 19, 2016 14:53:24 GMT -5
i've known about this mixon thing for years now. those of us who follow ou closely have known this day was coming. i personally would have kicked him off team and out of school the minute i spoke with him and saw the vid. there have to be team rules. no violence to women. no sexual assualt. no thievery. do all you can to avoid circumstances that could put you in those situations. those rules have to be agreed to up front. no matter what sort of family connection a coach may have with players and no matter what sort of father figure he may try to be; there have to be agreed upon standards of behaviour. ok state acted promptly to kick the star potential kid off the team and out of school a few years ago after that kid was a hero in the bedlam game. they made a statement that that kind of behaviour was not what they wanted their program associated with. that said, i had not seen the vid. surely; i thought, the vid would be as it had been portrayed and written about. i mean.... for boren, stoops, and dave c to watch it... and act as they did... to keep him on campus with one year suspension, 100 hours of community service, and rehab his image and play it off as a one time mistake from an otherwise good young 18 year old kid from a bad home in oakland... in the face of a drunken, abusive, non-sympathetic woman who shoves him/ slaps him and apparently used emotionally charged racial slurs against him... with his only choice to act in self defense after attempting to break off the encounter??..... surely the video would largely back up large key aspects in their framed claims... wouldn't it??? the things they have in their favor on vid is that it is consistent with the two parties having had conflict before they endtered the place. that was something i was not aware of. mixon says she and her her friends were heckling them at a club before hand. the vid is somewhat consistent with that. when she enters, she is smiling, and very drunk. almost smug appearing. and she motions mixon over to come and speak with her when he walks into the place. but mixon also appears smug. he obviously calls her gay appearing friend some names and turns to walk away, then gets told off by her and then the flinch and the slap/shove from her come up. both were at fault. i can agree with that. mixon didn't have to enter the place. she didn't have to beckon him over. and she did not have to intiate physical contact. but the punch?? it was not a drunken shove like you see in a barfight over emotion flashes. that was a hook with pivot. a violent targeted KO blow thrown with vicious intent; one that he has obvously thrown many times before. that's a weapon to be thrown when your well being is seriously endangered; not a weapon to be thrown at a woman in a shouting match; no matter what racial slurs were being thrown. to see him throw that; and to see him looking smug prior to throwing it, i find it hard for boren stoops and c to make the decision they did. it's not the actions of a scared 18 year old kid who acted emotionally when confronted... and not the actions of a kid who tried to disengage and make a reasonable calm things down for even as little as 20 seconds or more before being repeatedly engaged physically by a drunk malicious woman to the point of having no choice but to hit her. not at all. and the whole narrative of them playing him up as a contrite young kid away from his west coast home; doing good with his rehab after having a 'stern' one year suspension from the team with a rebuiling and re education process of having him accompany cops to domestic abuse calls and visit rehab shelters for abused women??? that would be a more believable narrative; if they had released the vid earlier, and if they had had mixon adress the issue publically and had him speak as an advocate about the issue. but they have hidden him. even at the last two bowl press conferences, they have had conference officials bully the press into avoiding questions about the incident. and his recent parking disturbance with the parking officer strongly suggest that he continues to act in a non contrite, entitled manner. it is clear that their game plan was to sweep this under the rug, and they went through these extraordinary steps to shield him not neccessarily because they honestly believed it was best for him; but because he was a 5 star coveted signee who was definetely capapble of hleping their struggling program once he was on the field. they firmly believed they could keep this minimal, then release it once he had declared his entrance to the draft, then throw their hands up and declare it was no longer a school issue; that they acted with harsh penalties of a year suspension; where other incidents at other schools got kids one game suspension, and that now mixon could practice his speech of being a young one time foolish young man in a racially dissimilar environment making the stupid and woefully regrettable mistake of striking an unsympathetic agressive woman.... and rehearse this speech 32 times in a row while interviewing at the combine in indianapolis. another issue i struggle with as i mull this over is... what is indeed an appopriate punishment? if i put myself in stoops' shoes, i have to send the message that this is not tolerated at my program, and i kick him off the team and make sure he is expelled from school. i'm fine with that. i disagree with those who say, "you cant kick him out of school. you can't ruin his life over one foolish incident" i disagree because me kicking him off campus does not ruin his life. in this instance, he serves no jail time. and he is (mostly) free to enroll anywhere else and go to school. if he wants to continue football and can find a program to take him, he has the chance to rehab his image and still get an education and still a change to get to the league perhaps. but the larger issues come up as i consider things further. if i am wrong for keeping him on campus since it sends the wrong message, and since it potentially places women at my P5 school in danger... why do i have the perception that i'm less objective to him going to a jucco? or G5 school? why are those women's potential for harm any less improtant than those women at my school? why am i wrong for keeping him on my campus but some other AD is less wrong for admitting him to his campus in a year or two?? why do we tend to be less objecting to a story where a kid who stumbles from one school, rehabs, makes amends, and goes to jucco then signs with say, LA tech? which brings up the notion of what the just punishment should be, from an ethics standpoint, of hitting a woman? lifetime banishment from all chances at all schools? jucco, g5, p5 or otherwise?? one year banishment? two years? three years and an nfl fre agent try out? what are three bones in a liquored up obnoxoius acting 20 year old woman's face worth? it's a strange ambiguity i notice in many media analysts opinions on the matter, such as those given my trevor mattich this weekend He lost a year of football (he was redshirting anyway). He'll now lose millions of dollars. He will be a social pariah for years. I read he was already evicted from his apartment? Not sure if true nor of the legality of that. He will suffer for this, that's for sure. I think had they released it a few years ago he may have been able to transfer and become a JUCO star and possible make amends, but now he probably cannot. Like you, I really don't know the appropriate penalty. Split second response to a poor decision by some drunk broad shoving him shouldn't really impact him the rest of his life, but then again, some poor decisions carry dire consequences. Breaking 4 bones in a girls face with a punch is pretty much something EVERY young man knows they should never do, and they never would. I don't know a single man or youth that would punch a woman in that scenario. I can't imagine laying hands on a woman under any scenario, other than to maybe push them away if they are attacking you.
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Post by Baph on Dec 19, 2016 16:57:47 GMT -5
He lost a year of football (he was redshirting anyway). He'll now lose millions of dollars. He will be a social pariah for years. I read he was already evicted from his apartment? Getting red shirted when you still practice and get your education and meals fully paid for while you wait 10 months to become a rockstar athlete is not really punishment, is it? He got evicted this year for not paying rent for an entire semester. Totally unrelated to this incident. He's also alleged to have threatened to run over a parking attendant by lurching his vehicle at her after he tore up the ticket and threw it in her face. Apparently he thought it was ok to park on the front lawn of the student union like he's fucking Elvis or something. The dude is a powder keg. I don't think there's any denying it at this point. The problem is, he's one of the best running backs in the NCAA, easily NFL caliber, and he's capable of bringing in millions of dollars, prestigious rankings, elite bowl games, playoff berths, booster checks, and future recruits into the program. Lots of people know smoking is bad. Lots of people still smoke. It's the sordid world of college football under a microscope. This is how the sausage is made, folks. I've had women hit me with a closed fist on two separate occasions. I've never hit back. I've grabbed, restrained, pushed, but never struck. And even if smacking a crazed, aggressive woman is warranted, turning the hips and unloading like it's a title fight is unfathomable. It's called a pimp hand, fellas. You don't Chuck Liddell your lady when she gets out of line. We're not cromags. In terms of body mass and skeletal frame, this is the equivalent of unloading on a 14 year old boy, except the woman produces less testosterone and has less ability to harm you. If Mixon pushed her down or slapped her back I don't think anybody says a word and her already poor behavior becomes THE story. And I've got to say, sooner2 impresses the hell out of me. I know it's difficult to be self-critical of your team and to remain objective in these situations, but your analysis and handling of the topic is incredibly honest and enlightened, and that's exceptional in such and emotionally-charged environment. Huge tip of the hat. I would hope to handle myself the same way if it were me in your shoes.
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Post by daywork on Dec 19, 2016 17:09:05 GMT -5
Just to play devils advocate. Sooner, if you kick him out of school. You going to kick her out too? She is the one that started it. She pushed then slapped him 1st. You can say he was just defending himself.
Oh well, I guess she learned not to fuck with the wrong guy. And he'll learn not to punch a girl.
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Post by Baph on Dec 19, 2016 17:18:33 GMT -5
Just to play devils advocate. Sooner, if you kick him out of school. You going to kick her out too? She is the one that started it. She pushed then slapped him 1st. You can say he was just defending himself. Oh well, I guess she learned not to fuck with the wrong guy. And he'll learn not to punch a girl. Very interesting topic. I would personally distinguish between student and scholarship student athlete, and sooner laid out some excellent ground rules for the athlete. If you're going to represent our program, we have zero tolerance for violence or rape, end of story. What do you do if a student commits battery? Regular, run of the mill student? Also, based on known recidivism rates in domestic violence, what makes you sure he'll learn not to punch a girl?
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Post by sooner2 on Dec 19, 2016 17:42:24 GMT -5
It is interesting to think how she should be handled. In considering the incident I envision myself as stoops. Not a school internal student affairs type officer. She "struck " first ; yes. But she did not look to be trying to strike him again. One must also assess how threat could be expected from her hitting him. No. I would not throw her out of school if I were a student conduct officer. Probation for 2 semesters. Mandantory counseling . That type of stuff.
Another big issue in such matters is this.... we have to get coaches out of the equation when it comes to discipline in incidents like this. We have removed coaches from making medical decisions about when a player can re enter a game after a concussion with a clear and stepwise protocol. The coach must be removed from the decision to put the player back in the game. He has an obvious conflict.
Shouldn't we also remove coaches from discipline in such violence dispute matters ? That's not what they are hired to do. And they have obvious conflicts. The conference commissioners now yield massive powers. Far more than the NCAA. Several conferences have been able to put forth at least a few laws re violence. For instance, the pac12 forbids inter confermce transfers when an athlete has been released from one school for violence vs women incidents.
Couldn't a basic set of guidelines be enacted by conferences with relatively straight foward guides for discipline ? Seems like a reasonable approach. I know that many situations are not the same, but wouldn't that be a good place to start?
The other thing that bugs me when I hear callers on such matters is the logic of "well... no charges were filed against the guy... so he's innocent. Why is the school suspending him?" Ibheard lots of such logic on the Minnesota situation. We have to remember that no charges being filed doesn't denote innocence. It says that attorneys decided they could not win a trial. The standard HS to be high in such instances since prison time is a possibility. Whether or not such connections with such matters should result in dismissal from school or team is an entirely different mattter.
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Post by daywork on Dec 19, 2016 18:17:43 GMT -5
Just to play devils advocate. Sooner, if you kick him out of school. You going to kick her out too? She is the one that started it. She pushed then slapped him 1st. You can say he was just defending himself. Oh well, I guess she learned not to fuck with the wrong guy. And he'll learn not to punch a girl. Very interesting topic. I would personally distinguish between student and scholarship student athlete, and sooner laid out some excellent ground rules for the athlete. If you're going to represent our program, we have zero tolerance for violence or rape, end of story. What do you do if a student commits battery? Regular, run of the mill student? Also, based on known recidivism rates in domestic violence, what makes you sure he'll learn not to punch a girl? LOL I guess I'm assuming if the NFL teams decide to pass on him because of this incident that he'll learn to not hit a woman. Or it will make him hate women and want to hit them more.
The thing with this one is.. She is the one that committed battery. He may have said some dumb shit to her, but he didn't just go up and sucker punch her. If I remember correctly didn't he even step back before she put her hands on him, Like he was about to leave?
I'm no lawyer or anything, but if she tried to press charges or even sue him. I don't think it would hold up in court. Because she was the attacker. Yeah, he ended it and hit her much much harder then she struck him.
He broke a man rule of never hit a woman. But did he really break a law?
I'm not trying to defend him, as far as I know. He's a real asshole. I've never personally hit a woman but I sure as hell wanted to LOL.
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Post by daywork on Dec 19, 2016 18:38:00 GMT -5
It is interesting to think how she should be handled. In considering the incident I envision myself as stoops. Not a school internal student affairs type officer. She "struck " first ; yes. But she did not look to be trying to strike him again. One must also assess how threat could be expected from her hitting him. No. I would not throw her out of school if I were a student conduct officer. Probation for 2 semesters. Mandantory counseling . That type of stuff. Another big issue in such matters is this.... we have to get coaches out of the equation when it comes to discipline in incidents like this. We have removed coaches from making medical decisions about when a player can re enter a game after a concussion with a clear and stepwise protocol. The coach must be removed from the decision to put the player back in the game. He has an obvious conflict. Shouldn't we also remove coaches from discipline in such violence dispute matters ? That's not what they are hired to do. And they have obvious conflicts. The conference commissioners now yield massive powers. Far more than the NCAA. Several conferences have been able to put forth at least a few laws re violence. For instance, the pac12 forbids inter confermce transfers when an athlete has been released from one school for violence vs women incidents. Couldn't a basic set of guidelines be enacted by conferences with relatively straight foward guides for discipline ? Seems like a reasonable approach. I know that many situations are not the same, but wouldn't that be a good place to start? The other thing that bugs me when I hear callers on such matters is the logic of "well... no charges were filed against the guy... so he's innocent. Why is the school suspending him?" Ibheard lots of such logic on the Minnesota situation. We have to remember that no charges being filed doesn't denote innocence. It says that attorneys decided they could not win a trial. The standard HS to be high in such instances since prison time is a possibility. Whether or not such connections with such matters should result in dismissal from school or team is an entirely different mattter. That's the thing. It doesn't matter if she struck him once or a dozen times. She struck him, she is the one that attached him. To me it doesn't matter if she could really hurt him or not. Hell, she could've got her finger nail in his eye screwing up his vision for life.
If you walked up to me and punched me, I take out my gun a shoot you. Yes, I used much more power then you used. But you are still in the wrong for attacking me. I'm allowed to defend myself.
What charges are you going to file on him?
I totally agree. Coaches shouldn't be involved in disciplinary reviews. They should have no say in those matters.
Maybe I'm way off. I just don't think he broke the law. He broke a man rule.
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Post by daywork on Dec 19, 2016 22:14:28 GMT -5
I've thought about it some more. Yeah, I guess he could be charged because what he did was excessive. A push back probably would've done the trick.
Idk, kind of a gray area.
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Post by Baph on Dec 21, 2016 12:29:07 GMT -5
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Post by daywork on Dec 21, 2016 17:37:33 GMT -5
Maybe they really believe in the MLB motto. "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" LOL
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Faydee
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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Post by Faydee on Dec 21, 2016 22:26:16 GMT -5
Maybe they really believe in the MLB motto. "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" LOL
and "It's only cheating if you get caught!"
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Post by Baph on Dec 23, 2016 1:33:55 GMT -5
Interesting comments by Saban about players leaving early and/or sitting out bowl games. The playoff has devalued the other bowl games significantly, and if you're not in the playoff or one of the marquee bowls, the incentive to play is at an all time low, and thus it's understandable that allure of a bowl game is significantly different that it was just 4-5 years ago. The Orange Bowl used to be the crown jewel of your career as a conference vs conference super game . . . now it's like, fuck, didn't make the playoffs, likely gonna sign for $3 mill/year, sure as shit don't need an acl injury in a meaningless bowl game . . . see ya.
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Post by daywork on Dec 24, 2016 16:02:09 GMT -5
Interesting comments by Saban about players leaving early and/or sitting out bowl games. The playoff has devalued the other bowl games significantly, and if you're not in the playoff or one of the marquee bowls, the incentive to play is at an all time low, and thus it's understandable that allure of a bowl game is significantly different that it was just 4-5 years ago. The Orange Bowl used to be the crown jewel of your career as a conference vs conference super game . . . now it's like, fuck, didn't make the playoffs, likely gonna sign for $3 mill/year, sure as shit don't need an acl injury in a meaningless bowl game . . . see ya. You know my stance on the bowls game. To me they don't mean much of anything, more of a advertising thing. If your not in the playoffs, your just playing for pride.
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Post by Baph on Dec 25, 2016 22:06:16 GMT -5
Interesting comments by Saban about players leaving early and/or sitting out bowl games. The playoff has devalued the other bowl games significantly, and if you're not in the playoff or one of the marquee bowls, the incentive to play is at an all time low, and thus it's understandable that allure of a bowl game is significantly different that it was just 4-5 years ago. The Orange Bowl used to be the crown jewel of your career as a conference vs conference super game . . . now it's like, fuck, didn't make the playoffs, likely gonna sign for $3 mill/year, sure as shit don't need an acl injury in a meaningless bowl game . . . see ya. You know my stance on the bowls game. To me they don't mean much of anything, more of a advertising thing. If your not in the playoffs, your just playing for pride. The Saban quote really drove this home. They are too many bowls and now with the playoff even the mega bowls don't matter very much anymore.
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Post by daywork on Dec 27, 2016 21:29:53 GMT -5
Betting on these bowl games suck. I'm having no luck at all.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 10:35:45 GMT -5
I haven't watched one minute of one bowl game yet. Wanted to see some of the Army-North Texas game but plans 'n shit.
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