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Post by PatSox on Feb 18, 2018 0:05:05 GMT -5
Duh....when do we vote to ban hearts? They kill more people than cars and guns combined.....duh
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Post by MMAJim on Feb 18, 2018 0:45:09 GMT -5
Duh....when do we vote to ban hearts? They kill more people than cars and guns combined.....duh I believe you must first start a petition.
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 18, 2018 11:01:13 GMT -5
I was got better graded and took advanced classes but not sure I am more intelligent than them. Does anybody else think that ocmmafan probably isn't as intelligent as he thinks he is?
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 18, 2018 11:12:26 GMT -5
I liked your post except for the Trump part. That's why shit never gets done. Because it becomes a political issue and people start taking sides and walking their party lines. There were school shootings during Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump. That's 2 send and 2 reps presidents. Maybe if we start looking at the situation as a human crisis instead of a political one, something could get done. What could be done? I have no fucking clue. But some liberals start screaming GUN CONTROL..and some conservatives are not even willing to listen. I wish that somehow both could meet in the middle. Arm teachers and train them. Why am I not surprised that the person working in law enforcement suggest something so idiotic? Do you know how many sworn law enforcement officers there are in the USA (I actually don't know, but from what I've read, it's in the range of 750,000-900,000)? Do you know how many teachers there are in the USA (again, I don't know off the top of my head, but most sources I looked at put it north of 3 million)? Do you really think it's even remotely practical or cost effective to train and arm 4x as many people as there currently are sworn law enforcement officers? Think about the teachers you had in high school: would you really want all of them to have guns? Did you know that Oklahoma, for example, is so broke that 20% of its school districts have gone down to 4-days a week and cops are being told not to fill up their gas tanks? You think they can afford to pay to arm 4x more teachers than they have cops? www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/27/after-slashing-taxes-oklahoma-struggles-fund-schools-other-basic-services/d3Z4z26eF7cXbN2Wgs5LzI/story.htmlDo you know how to think? Like at all?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 12:40:13 GMT -5
Do you actually think money is the issue stopping teachers from being armed?
Or are you not as smart as you think you are?
I would have absolutely no problem with teachers who have the desire to arm themselves while in their classrooms being allowed to legally do so. Currently they can't, even if they want to have their own personal firearm with them, doing so would be against the law.
I remember all the teachers I had in high school. I wouldn't have a problem with a single one of them having a firearm in their desk.
At no point in my high school career or any part of my educational experience did I witness a teacher get physical with a student. I'm sure that they had the desire to punch some of us right in the face many times, but that never happened.
So why would I be concerned about them having the ability to exercise deadly force in the defense of their students?
There are enough guns in this country for every citizen in the country to have two guns on them at all times. Money isn't the issue, and neither is the supply of guns. The issue at hand are archaic laws that are currently tying the hands of what would be the last line of defense for our children who are in school.
The reality that I think most people don't seem to accept is that mass shootings typically end the first time someone fires back. If it becomes common knowledge that school teachers have guns and will shoot to defend their students- schools stop being soft targets and become more like a prison or any other place that has armed guards present.
You don't hear about mass shootings at places that are hard targets.
We have the ability and the means to make our schools hard targets. And we should do so immediately.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 18, 2018 14:41:11 GMT -5
Arm teachers and train them. Why am I not surprised that the person working in law enforcement suggest something so idiotic? Do you know how many sworn law enforcement officers there are in the USA (I actually don't know, but from what I've read, it's in the range of 750,000-900,000)? Do you know how many teachers there are in the USA (again, I don't know off the top of my head, but most sources I looked at put it north of 3 million)? Do you really think it's even remotely practical or cost effective to train and arm 4x as many people as there currently are sworn law enforcement officers? Think about the teachers you had in high school: would you really want all of them to have guns? Did you know that Oklahoma, for example, is so broke that 20% of its school districts have gone down to 4-days a week and cops are being told not to fill up their gas tanks? You think they can afford to pay to arm 4x more teachers than they have cops? www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/27/after-slashing-taxes-oklahoma-struggles-fund-schools-other-basic-services/d3Z4z26eF7cXbN2Wgs5LzI/story.htmlDo you know how to think? Like at all? Do you know how to log into one screen name or do you have to parrot the same liberal shill from multiple accounts? YOUR irrational fear of guns is a product of weak upbringing and being a total pussy. You are the kind of buffoon that will repeat the lie of "oh, the 18 mass shootings in schools". You are an anti-gun, weak minded pussy. But the gun isn;t the problem. It isn't MY idea, dumb dumb. Multiple states already have armed defended programs and teachers that carry. Many teachers have CCWs. Many teachers already know how to shoot and unlike you, are not terrified to hold or handle a weapon. Teachers in Florida took bullets trying to shield kids. If one of them was trained and had a weapon, how would it be worse? I know - they might accidentally shoot an innocent, right? The hypothetical instead of reality is all you ever have. Having a percentage of teachers that volunteer and take training to carry concealed OR have access to a weapon IS a great idea and currently in practice. You lying and pretending it has to be EVERY teacher is another poor, poor example of your pathetic high school debate schools.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 18, 2018 14:49:07 GMT -5
Do you actually think money is the issue stopping teachers from being armed? Or are you not as smart as you think you are? I would have absolutely no problem with teachers who have the desire to arm themselves while in their classrooms being allowed to legally do so. Currently they can't, even if they want to have their own personal firearm with them, doing so would be against the law. I remember all the teachers I had in high school. I wouldn't have a problem with a single one of them having a firearm in their desk. At no point in my high school career or any part of my educational experience did I witness a teacher get physical with a student. I'm sure that they had the desire to punch some of us right in the face many times, but that never happened. So why would I be concerned about them having the ability to exercise deadly force in the defense of their students? There are enough guns in this country for every citizen in the country to have two guns on them at all times. Money isn't the issue, and neither is the supply of guns. The issue at hand are archaic laws that are currently tying the hands of what would be the last line of defense for our children who are in school. The reality that I think most people don't seem to accept is that mass shootings typically end the first time someone fires back. If it becomes common knowledge that school teachers have guns and will shoot to defend their students- schools stop being soft targets and become more like a prison or any other place that has armed guards present. You don't hear about mass shootings at places that are hard targets. We have the ability and the means to make our schools hard targets. And we should do so immediately. But, but, but schools are "gun free zones" so therefore, no one can have guns. Guns are scary. Guns kill people. Somehow guns are the problem since the media has said it so many times. Also love how the people that will never have a kid, probably never even get laid, have strong opinions on how to help protect kids in schools.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 18, 2018 14:51:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 15:24:19 GMT -5
Gun free zones rely on the power of the government to punish the perp later, and throw an additional charge in.
People willing to kill children give a fuck about that? Really?
It is not an effective deterrent.
Knowing you'll get shot quickly- that's a deterrent.
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Post by Baph on Feb 18, 2018 15:42:15 GMT -5
This will never stop until the tormented schitzo brats with blaze of glory fetishes see their ilk shot dead after a measly two kills, bereft of body count and sensationalism, just shot dead by armed guard. At that point I strongly suspect the bullied zoloft junkies go back to starting fires and breaking windows and overdosing, like the good ole days.
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Post by slaytan on Feb 19, 2018 6:11:30 GMT -5
It is absolutely disgusting to see the high school kids from Parkland attention whoring and the media exploiting it politically.
One of the dead from the school? A security guard, who was not allowed to be armed. So what the fuck was he supposed to do? It’s like a real life, tragic version of the funny commercial where the bank is being robbed and the security guard says “I’m not actually a security guard, I’m a security monitor.”
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Post by slaytan on Feb 19, 2018 6:15:40 GMT -5
Arming hapless teachers is not a good answer. The kids would steal the guns.
ALLOWING teachers -and security guards- hell, janitors to be armed if they want to is the best and only answer
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 6:40:06 GMT -5
Duh....when do we vote to ban hearts? They kill more people than cars and guns combined.....duh Pretty decent analogy but heart disease is the cause, not the heart and we have people trying to ban sodas and McDonald's.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 19, 2018 10:20:19 GMT -5
When was the last time any of you were in a high school, out of curiosity? We had two armed city police officers that had offices at our school. Even with them, I'm guessing with the right planning on where to spark it off, it'd be 10+ minutes before they could get to me with all the chaos, if they got there at all.
You want to turn school more into prison than it already is? Fine, but don't be surprised when there's even more blowback from disenfranchised kids elsewhere in life.
Instead of trying to arm more dumbasses, what's wrong with the reclassification of semi automatic weapons. Gotta be 25 to buy one. Until then, cut your chops on bolt/pump action, and let your brain develop the rest of the way and come out of the fog.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 10:27:09 GMT -5
People that don't know anything about guns will tell you a fix is to ban AR15's. Guess what? I can turn a deer rifle in to a AR15 simply by extending a magazine capacity. Here is another fact... if someone wanted to really kill lots of people in a shooting like this, the best gun to use is a shotgun with 00 buck shot. The other best gun to use would be a Ruger 10/22 as the sound would be almost impossible to hear in a crowd and everyone knows .22 bullets cause more damage proportionally to bullet size/weight than the bigger guns.
So lets say the gun control people get their ways and "assault rifles" are banned from sale. You now have 20 million existing rifles on currently in the public that you either need to go around confiscating or somehow getting the owners to surrender them (good luck). But lets say you are able to somehow get all AR15's, Mini 14/30's, SKS, and the endless amount of military style rifles away from their owners. What happens if the next shooting is done with a Berretta Shotgun, a Browning A bolt deer rifle, a Ruger 10/22, or even a lever action 3030? What's the next solution? Do you keep going down the line, or are the gun control people just concerned about shootings done with AR's?
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 19, 2018 10:37:13 GMT -5
Arming hapless teachers is not a good answer. The kids would steal the guns. ALLOWING teachers -and security guards- hell, janitors to be armed if they want to is the best and only answer So all the other developed countries on earth that don't have regular school massacres, is that what they do to prevent them? Armed teachers and janitors? If that's the only answer, that must be what everybody else did, right?
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Post by MMAJim on Feb 19, 2018 10:39:24 GMT -5
I have a .22 rifle that was my grandpa's, at least 50 years old, and probably quite a bit older. It is semi-automatic and holds 10-12 rds in a tube through the stock. My sister ranted and raved about 'semi-auto' guns and how horrible they were. Then I asked her if she remembered shooting Grandpa's old .22 when we were kids. I honestly still don't think that she put 2 and 2 together anyway.
All that being said, AR-15's are easy to use, extremely efficient, and readily available. The cat is out of the bag on them. Time and energy should be spent on finding root causes and remedies for them. Gun owners should be held to high standards of safety and secure possession. A bigger sign that says "Gun Free Zone, and We're Awfully Serious About It" won't protect anyone.
We may have to consider aesthetically displeasing measures to protect schools, if our goal is to actually prevent shootings.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 19, 2018 10:52:23 GMT -5
People that don't know anything about guns will tell you a fix is to ban AR15's. Guess what? I can turn a deer rifle in to a AR15 simply by extending a magazine capacity. Here is another fact... if someone wanted to really kill lots of people in a shooting like this, the best gun to use is a shotgun with 00 buck shot. The other best gun to use would be a Ruger 10/22 as the sound would be almost impossible to hear in a crowd and everyone knows .22 bullets cause more damage proportionally to bullet size/weight than the bigger guns. So lets say the gun control people get their ways and "assault rifles" are banned from sale. You now have 20 million existing rifles on currently in the public that you either need to go around confiscating or somehow getting the owners to surrender them (good luck). But lets say you are able to somehow get all AR15's, Mini 14/30's, SKS, and the endless amount of military style rifles away from their owners. What happens if the next shooting is done with a Berretta Shotgun, a Browning A bolt deer rifle, a Ruger 10/22, or even a lever action 3030? What's the next solution? Do you keep going down the line, or are the gun control people just concerned about shootings done with AR's? We've been over this between you and I. I grew up with guns, I own guns. I'm not a loser nerd who spends every dollar I have buying tactical shit for them, but I know it's possible. Here's the thing, we reclassified automatic weapons after the violence from the mob in the 20s and 30s. I'm not even talking about banning them, just putting an age limit on them. If you're going to use the "this kid would have found a gun otherwise" argument, explain how. Gun shows? Rules need to be enforced there too. Black market? So the kid was a loser who probably couldn't have scored a bag of weed, but now he knows weapons dealers?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 10:55:20 GMT -5
Ban video games with any shooting violence
Stop prescribing kids ADHD medicine or other drugs... fix the fucking problem, don't cover it up
Make kids work or volunteer after school and on the weekends... take away their idle time
Give teachers immunity to rat kids or parents out for being worthless...
Set up protocols with law enforcement where there are priorities to check on people who may pose risks... less time spent writing speeding tickets and more following up on tips and concerns
Pass laws that allow parents to be prosecuted along with their kids (who are still living with them) if it shows the parents were negligent in knowing what is going on in their house or with their children in terms of social media/threats/planning of attacks... you can't tell me the parents of these kids thought their child was normal and harmless.
I am okay with background checks even further things like magazine capacity limitations (10 rounds).
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 19, 2018 11:00:18 GMT -5
Ban video games with any shooting violence Stop prescribing kids ADHD medicine or other drugs... fix the fucking problem, don't cover it up Make kids work or volunteer after school and on the weekends... take away their idle time Give teachers immunity to rat kids or parents out for being worthless... Set up protocols with law enforcement where there are priorities to check on people who may pose risks... less time spent writing speeding tickets and more following up on tips and concerns Pass laws that allow parents to be prosecuted along with their kids (who are still living with them) if it shows the parents were negligent in knowing what is going on in their house or with their children in terms of social media/threats/planning of attacks... you can't tell me the parents of these kids thought their child was normal and harmless. I am okay with background checks even further things like magazine capacity limitations (10 rounds). That's some pretty fascist treatment of children you're advocating for at the beginning of the post. I don't get why anyone thinks putting kids in MORE stringent environments is anyway to fix the problem. I get it that a lot of you are "by the books" personalities, and that's fine. But that doesn't work for the majority of people, especially kids. And especially kids who are smarter than ever with more access to information than any. They don't buy the bullshit when you tell them to fall in line.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:01:25 GMT -5
People that don't know anything about guns will tell you a fix is to ban AR15's. Guess what? I can turn a deer rifle in to a AR15 simply by extending a magazine capacity. Here is another fact... if someone wanted to really kill lots of people in a shooting like this, the best gun to use is a shotgun with 00 buck shot. The other best gun to use would be a Ruger 10/22 as the sound would be almost impossible to hear in a crowd and everyone knows .22 bullets cause more damage proportionally to bullet size/weight than the bigger guns. So lets say the gun control people get their ways and "assault rifles" are banned from sale. You now have 20 million existing rifles on currently in the public that you either need to go around confiscating or somehow getting the owners to surrender them (good luck). But lets say you are able to somehow get all AR15's, Mini 14/30's, SKS, and the endless amount of military style rifles away from their owners. What happens if the next shooting is done with a Berretta Shotgun, a Browning A bolt deer rifle, a Ruger 10/22, or even a lever action 3030? What's the next solution? Do you keep going down the line, or are the gun control people just concerned about shootings done with AR's? We've been over this between you and I. I grew up with guns, I own guns. I'm not a loser nerd who spends every dollar I have buying tactical shit for them, but I know it's possible. Here's the thing, we reclassified automatic weapons after the violence from the mob in the 20s and 30s. I'm not even talking about banning them, just putting an age limit on them. If you're going to use the "this kid would have found a gun otherwise" argument, explain how. Gun shows? Rules need to be enforced there too. Black market? So the kid was a loser who probably couldn't have scored a bag of weed, but now he knows weapons dealers? If you ban AR's there will immediately be a replacement that goes around the loopholes. Also, there are very simple ways of building AR type guns on other platforms and simply converting them to larger caliber semi auto. I am okay with an age limit on semi auto rifles, but you are going to have to ban all of them... including the .22's that every kid starts shooting with and all auto shotguns. There are so many currently out there, I just don't see how you clean things up. I own guns that are not registered, and I am not even a gun nut. Think about how many as a percentage you could actually get. Maybe 5% - 10% if you tried to confiscate all of them? Most people would hide there's and just tell the government they were stolen from their house and they never files a report.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:03:38 GMT -5
Ban video games with any shooting violence Stop prescribing kids ADHD medicine or other drugs... fix the fucking problem, don't cover it up Make kids work or volunteer after school and on the weekends... take away their idle time Give teachers immunity to rat kids or parents out for being worthless... Set up protocols with law enforcement where there are priorities to check on people who may pose risks... less time spent writing speeding tickets and more following up on tips and concerns Pass laws that allow parents to be prosecuted along with their kids (who are still living with them) if it shows the parents were negligent in knowing what is going on in their house or with their children in terms of social media/threats/planning of attacks... you can't tell me the parents of these kids thought their child was normal and harmless. I am okay with background checks even further things like magazine capacity limitations (10 rounds). That's some pretty fascist treatment of children you're advocating for at the beginning of the post. I don't get why anyone thinks putting kids in MORE stringent environments is anyway to fix the problem. I get it that a lot of you are "by the books" personalities, and that's fine. But that doesn't work for the majority of people, especially kids. And especially kids who are smarter than ever with more access to information than any. They don't buy the bullshit when you tell them to fall in line. If you can't correlate the violence of children directly with the lack of parenting/prescription drug use/violence on video games/and laziness of America's youth... I don't know what to tell you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:29:22 GMT -5
How the heck does arming teachers put kids in a "more" stringent environment? The teachers would not be taking the gun out and pointing them at the kids (that's assault) who misbehave. They would take them out when a deranged psychopath decides to stalk the halls with a gun of their own, killing people.
And it's real simple for you childless folks to talk like you have a clue here, but you don't. And until you have a kid in school, you won't.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 11:38:48 GMT -5
Waste of time arguing with comrade A and Andrew. Both are just here to stir shit up and waste time. Andrew may finally grow up, but I'd give it another 5 years or so.
Toehold just happened to wander in here drugged up on some shit he bought on the dark web. Dude doesn't know what he is talking about and only posts his borderline retarded shit because he's been brainwashed by Liberal nut job family.
If I were you guys, I wouldn't bother.
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Post by PatSox on Feb 19, 2018 11:49:58 GMT -5
Ban video games with any shooting violence
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 19, 2018 12:05:37 GMT -5
How the heck does arming teachers put kids in a "more" stringent environment? The teachers would not be taking the gun out and pointing them at the kids (that's assault) who misbehave. They would take them out when a deranged psychopath decides to stalk the halls with a gun of their own, killing people. And it's real simple for you childless folks to talk like you have a clue here, but you don't. And until you have a kid in school, you won't. I'm talking about the old fuddy duddy attitude of "if these damn kids just had jobs, we wouldn't have this problem." Kids aren't as stupid as they used to be, they have all the information they world has to offer at their fingertips. Forcing kids into an environment where they are locked up for 8 hours a day is already antiquated enough. Having armed guards patrolling them is a fucking ridiculous answer to anything.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 19, 2018 12:07:18 GMT -5
Waste of time arguing with comrade A and Andrew. Both are just here to stir shit up and waste time. Andrew may finally grow up, but I'd give it another 5 years or so. Toehold just happened to wander in here drugged up on some shit he bought on the dark web. Dude doesn't know what he is talking about and only posts his borderline retarded shit because he's been brainwashed by Liberal nut job family. If I were you guys, I wouldn't bother. Right because God forbid there be anything other than an echo chamber here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 12:09:52 GMT -5
Armed guards? No. Armed teachers? Yes.
Mass shootings are still going to happen. Just not at schools.
A teacher should be allowed to defend their own life, and it used to be that going to work as a school teacher did not entail putting your life in danger. But that hasn't been the case since 1999. Bout time we accept and recognize that the world changed, and in order to protect our children we have to change with it.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 19, 2018 12:19:53 GMT -5
Armed guards? No. Armed teachers? Yes. Mass shootings are still going to happen. Just not at schools. A teacher should be allowed to defend their own life, and it used to be that going to work as a school teacher did not entail putting your life in danger. But that hasn't been the case since 1999. Bout time we accept and recognize that the world changed, and in order to protect our children we have to change with it. I guess I get that. But we have police officers who's whole job is supposed to be deciphering situations and when/where to use force, and they can't do it. Now teachers with all their stress and students and shit are also supposed to be tasked with a gun and being on lookout? It doesn't make any sense if you think about it. You expect them to be ready for that moment? If they spend 20 years teaching and never see it, and then all the sudden it happens? The average person carries a gun and thinks that it makes them safer, but it doesn't. Your psychological makeup is far more telling on whether you make it out of a dangerous/violent confrontation than whether you have a gun.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 12:29:52 GMT -5
Well now you are making some sweeping generalizations. Most police officers are capable of hitting what they shoot at, and knowing when to draw in the first place.
A teacher is not in the same situation a police officer is in. They do not need to have a gun on their hip. But one in their desk is fine.
I'll give you that the element of surprise is more than most are capable of dealing with. And so a shooter might face the first class room with no resistance. But when they fire their gun, every teacher in the surrounding classrooms would know something was going down. In that situation, would you rather the surviving teachers be unarmed, or capable of defending their classroom?
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