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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 18:59:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately this is just something we are going to have to continue living with. You have 350 million people here, if .0001% of the people are bad enough to want to do something like this... then there will be 349 more of these as long as new sickos are not born. The only thing you can do is minimize the chances that it happens to someone close to you. You can't fix people who are mentally ill unless they want to be fixed, and you can't get the guns out of the hands of bad people by passing laws. This is what we are going to have to deal with regardless of what laws we pass or feelings we try to coddle.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 15, 2018 20:19:10 GMT -5
I concur I don't know what to do, but I can't be on board with "we have to accept this".
One of the first things we can do is minimize the "cool" factor. No media blitzes making heros out of the perps, stop having cops rolling down the street in armored tinted SUVs and having them respond to absolutely anything with ARs drawn, stop allowing the NRA or gun makers to lobby (give money to politicians).
I think one obvious gun law that can get everyone's support is raise the age to buy a semi automatic weapon to 21 or 25 or something.
Newtown, Aurora, and now this kid all perpetuated by people that could have been affected by that kind of law.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 20:39:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately, minimizing the cool factor will likely censor the shit out of video games and some movie content, No?
I feel there is one thing that confuses me a bit when I've purchased firearms. In the area that asked if I have ever been in the in outhouse, or if I'm on meds, etc...we go by the honor system? Check yes and go about our business?
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Post by Angelo on Feb 15, 2018 20:49:18 GMT -5
I feel there is one thing that confuses me a bit when I've purchased firearms. In the area that asked if I have ever been in the in outhouse, or if I'm on meds, etc...we go by the honor system? Check yes and go about our business?This is sorta the issue... we don't have a standard set of laws when it comes to guns across the country. The state-by-state is so radically different, that it doesn't matter how strict the strictest city/state laws are when you can just say go to St. Louis and buy a gun without a background check, some silences, extended clips, etc.... You can fit out a small country's military inside of a few hours with a trip here without filing one bit of paperwork.
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 15, 2018 21:12:23 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call.
Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be.
People's thought processes are crazy.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 15, 2018 21:44:23 GMT -5
I think just putting more reasonable restrictions on semi auto weapons is the way to go for now. I just spit balled that idea (like most of my bullshit), but it makes sense after thinking about it. I'd be interested in hearing arguments against it.
You can still be 18 and go buy a bolt action rifle or a shotgun for hunting. A pump shotgun is (in my opinion) as good of a home defense gun as it gets. That doesn't stop 18 year old from owning guns completely, so it's a good compromise.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 15, 2018 21:50:45 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call. Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be. People's thought processes are crazy. Come on man, I know you're usually trolling with your appearances here. But I'm going to take this one seriously just so you know how silly that argument is. Cars serve other purposes than killing people. The good outweighs the bad. And you are talking about accidents for the vast majority of deaths due to cars. I'm not a "ban guns" guy, and I think I should be able to be armed with whatever the police in my town are rolling through my neighborhood with. Whatever is a standard load out for an officer in a cruiser in my neighborhood should be fair game to me. But, I get some of the "ban guns" people. At this point it's really only a bunch of "unfuckable nerds who are into gun"s hobby that's threatened by most of the fairly reasonable gun laws that have been proposed.
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Post by CaveBearOG on Feb 15, 2018 21:51:35 GMT -5
Unfortunately this is just something we are going to have to continue living with. You have 350 million people here, if .0001% of the people are bad enough to want to do something like this... then there will be 349 more of these as long as new sickos are not born. The only thing you can do is minimize the chances that it happens to someone close to you. You can't fix people who are mentally ill unless they want to be fixed, and you can't get the guns out of the hands of bad people by passing laws. This is what we are going to have to deal with regardless of what laws we pass or feelings we try to coddle. This is the most logical read ive seen on the web today. Makes perfect sense.
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Post by Premier on Feb 15, 2018 22:15:21 GMT -5
So what's up with a full mental health evaluation as part of your paperwork before buying a gun.
Sounds logical. But what's the left's resistance on that?
Edit: I haven't read most of this thread. My bad if my question has been discussed already.
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Post by Angelo on Feb 15, 2018 22:26:13 GMT -5
So what's up with a full mental health evaluation as part of your paperwork before buying a gun. Sounds logical. But what's the left's resistance on that? Edit: I haven't read most of this thread. My bad if my question has been discussed already. The left doesn't have resistance on that (most of them anyways), the issue though is what some consider a mental issue to deny gun ownership in the first place. Oh if you believe in a religion, no gun. Oh if you think there needs to be a wall, no gun. etc.... Politics get involved in mental health until it is understood well enough. Even then politics get involved because people don't want to accept facts.
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 15, 2018 22:33:14 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call. Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be. People's thought processes are crazy. Come on man, I know you're usually trolling with your appearances here. But I'm going to take this one seriously just so you know how silly that argument is. Cars serve other purposes than killing people. The good outweighs the bad. And you are talking about accidents for the vast majority of deaths due to cars. I'm not a "ban guns" guy, and I think I should be able to be armed with whatever the police in my town are rolling through my neighborhood with. Whatever is a standard load out for an officer in a cruiser in my neighborhood should be fair game to me. But, I get some of the "ban guns" people. At this point it's really only a bunch of "unfuckable nerds who are into gun"s hobby that's threatened by most of the fairly reasonable gun laws that have been proposed. Uses for guns: Hunting Target shooting Home defense Collector's items Answer this seriously...Do you think there are more car related deaths each year or gun related deaths? I fully believe in banning the one that causes more deaths. I hope that we can push to ban the one that's fully responsible for more deaths, whichever that may be.
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 15, 2018 22:43:20 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call. Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be. People's thought processes are crazy. Aren't people required to be tested, licensed, and registered to drive a vehicle? Isn't every vehicle out there legally required to be registered with the government and insured if people want to drive it on public roads? Isn't crazy to think that it's necessary and feasible to heavily regulate car usage but to think comparable gun regulations are completely untenable?
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 15, 2018 22:47:44 GMT -5
Come on man, I know you're usually trolling with your appearances here. But I'm going to take this one seriously just so you know how silly that argument is. Cars serve other purposes than killing people. The good outweighs the bad. And you are talking about accidents for the vast majority of deaths due to cars. I'm not a "ban guns" guy, and I think I should be able to be armed with whatever the police in my town are rolling through my neighborhood with. Whatever is a standard load out for an officer in a cruiser in my neighborhood should be fair game to me. But, I get some of the "ban guns" people. At this point it's really only a bunch of "unfuckable nerds who are into gun"s hobby that's threatened by most of the fairly reasonable gun laws that have been proposed. Uses for guns: Hunting Target shooting Home defense Collector's items Answer this seriously...Do you think there are more car related deaths each year or gun related deaths? I fully believe in banning the one that causes more deaths. I hope that we can push to ban the one that's fully responsible for more deaths, whichever that may be. Isn't it crazy that a combination of laws and education have caused a near-constant decrease in the number of deaths per mile driven over the past century? Must be a pure coincidence that driving is heavily regulated and has never been safer, huh? Isn't that a wild fluke?
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 15, 2018 22:48:13 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call. Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be. People's thought processes are crazy. Aren't people required to be tested, licensed, and registered to drive a vehicle? Isn't every vehicle out there legally required to be registered with the government and insured if people want to drive it on public roads? Isn't crazy to think that it's necessary and feasible to heavily regulate car usage but to think comparable gun regulations are completely untenable? I was tested for my conceal and carry. When I bought my last gun, January 2018, I was made to fill out a background check form, which also stated what gun I purchased. On top of that, last time I checked, it wasn't a constitutional RIGHT to own firearms.. Can you show me the part about my constitutional right to own a car, or no? Just curious, how's that testing, licensing and registration working out to stop cars from killing people? I'll bet if they were registered with the government that it would help. And on top of that, to end ALL vehicular killing, the cars need to be insured. THAT will most certainly stop the killing. For good measure, we should make it a criminal offense to drive without a license or with a suspended one. If someone would just implement these laws, I doubt we would ever have another vehicular death again.
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 15, 2018 22:49:25 GMT -5
Uses for guns: Hunting Target shooting Home defense Collector's items Answer this seriously...Do you think there are more car related deaths each year or gun related deaths? I fully believe in banning the one that causes more deaths. I hope that we can push to ban the one that's fully responsible for more deaths, whichever that may be. Isn't it crazy that a combination of laws and education have caused a near-constant decrease in the number of deaths per mile driven over the past century? Must be a pure coincidence that driving is heavily regulated and has never been safer, huh? Isn't that a wild fluke? I must have missed the post where you compared gun vs. car deaths.. Can you show me where it's at?
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 15, 2018 22:57:07 GMT -5
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 15, 2018 23:00:33 GMT -5
Isn't it crazy that a combination of laws and education have caused a near-constant decrease in the number of deaths per mile driven over the past century? Must be a pure coincidence that driving is heavily regulated and has never been safer, huh? Isn't that a wild fluke? I must have missed the post where you compared gun vs. car deaths.. Can you show me where it's at? Did you miss the part where it's completely possible to pass laws that restrict deadly things in order to save lives rather than just shrugging and saying, "This is just the way things have to be," when dozens of children are gunned down? Does the fact that things probably will never be perfect mean that there's no point in trying to make them better? What the fuck is wrong with you?
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 15, 2018 23:01:14 GMT -5
I guarantee you Trump had nothing to do with this. Crazy people gonna crazy.
I'd go find some links with some info, but I'm already owning this debate, so I will save that for another time.
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 15, 2018 23:03:42 GMT -5
I guarantee you Trump had nothing to do with this. Crazy people gonna crazy. I'd go find some links with some info, but I'm already owning this debate, so I will save that for another time. Are you talking about the alt-right conspiracy theories that this dude was antifa? Did you not see that those have been debunked, and the shooter was a MAGA white supremacist fuck? Why don't you post those links you chicken shit moron?
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Post by Premier on Feb 15, 2018 23:06:18 GMT -5
I liked your post except for the Trump part. That's why shit never gets done. Because it becomes a political issue and people start taking sides and walking their party lines. There were school shootings during Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump. That's 2 send and 2 reps presidents. Maybe if we start looking at the situation as a human crisis instead of a political one, something could get done. What could be done? I have no fucking clue. But some liberals start screaming GUN CONTROL..and some conservatives are not even willing to listen. I wish that somehow both could meet in the middle.
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Post by Comrade Question on Feb 15, 2018 23:09:20 GMT -5
I liked your post except for the Trump part. That's why shit never gets done. Because it becomes a political issue and people start taking sides and walking their party lines. There were school shootings during Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump. That's 2 send and 2 reps presidents. Maybe if we start looking at the situation as a human crisis instead of a political one, something could get done. What could be done? I have no fucking clue. But some liberals start screaming GUN CONTROL..and some conservatives are not even willing to listen. I wish that somehow both could meet in the middle. Would it surprise you to know that laws are passed by politicians, which inherently makes the discussion of laws a political issue? Do you think you're ever going to get reasonable gun laws when you have gun lobbyists owing an entire political party through donations, lobbying, and advertising?
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 15, 2018 23:33:55 GMT -5
I guarantee you Trump had nothing to do with this. Crazy people gonna crazy. I'd go find some links with some info, but I'm already owning this debate, so I will save that for another time. Are you talking about the alt-right conspiracy theories that this dude was antifa? Did you not see that those have been debunked, and the shooter was a MAGA white supremacist fuck? Why don't you post those links you chicken shit moron? No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, I don’t know anything about that. You seem mad bro, you OK? Liberalism got your panties twisted. Haha. And again, I’m still owning you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 23:50:22 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call. Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be. People's thought processes are crazy. Aren't people required to be tested, licensed, and registered to drive a vehicle? Isn't every vehicle out there legally required to be registered with the government and insured if people want to drive it on public roads? Isn't crazy to think that it's necessary and feasible to heavily regulate car usage but to think comparable gun regulations are completely untenable? Guns are registered and owners are tested and regulated... when people follow the laws. How many unlicensed drivers and unregistered cars are on the road every day? Hell in California you get a drivers license if you come here illegally. The argument of laws helping gun violence is like saying that if you make drugs illegal and hard to get it will fix the drug usage problem here.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 16, 2018 0:27:31 GMT -5
We are also BY FAR the most medicated country in the world. We are the country of zero personal responsibility where everyone and anyone can claim it's "not their fault" they are lazy, can't get laid, can't get this or that job, etc. It perpetuates the problems of the weak and the weak minded sheep are the ones that need to take a gun to a school and kill a bunch of people to feel good.
We have too many pussies in this country and too many willing to coddle them. We didn't have this many pussies 50 years ago and we also didn't have school shootings.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 16, 2018 0:31:46 GMT -5
This shit is getting out of hand. These fucking "mentally ill" kids need a wake up call. Further, it amazes me that no one thinks cars should be banned after a wreck kills people, but guns sure need to be. People's thought processes are crazy. 1000% correct. It's the argument that kills the liberal narrative every single time. Blame the fucking gun?? Ridiculous.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 16, 2018 0:33:10 GMT -5
I liked your post except for the Trump part. That's why shit never gets done. Because it becomes a political issue and people start taking sides and walking their party lines. There were school shootings during Clinton, Bush, Obama and now Trump. That's 2 send and 2 reps presidents. Maybe if we start looking at the situation as a human crisis instead of a political one, something could get done. What could be done? I have no fucking clue. But some liberals start screaming GUN CONTROL..and some conservatives are not even willing to listen. I wish that somehow both could meet in the middle. Arm teachers and train them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 0:58:28 GMT -5
We are also BY FAR the most medicated country in the world. We are the country of zero personal responsibility where everyone and anyone can claim it's "not their fault" they are lazy, can't get laid, can't get this or that job, etc. It perpetuates the problems of the weak and the weak minded sheep are the ones that need to take a gun to a school and kill a bunch of people to feel good. We have too many pussies in this country and too many willing to coddle them. We didn't have this many pussies 50 years ago and we also didn't have school shootings. I think we have a major problem in this country with over-medicating, violent movies, violent video games, and not demanding kids grow up and mature at a young age. Our country thinks it's okay for a kid to be in his early 20's, living at his parents house, not working, playing video games, sleeping in, smoking weed, and not having any personal responsibility or even asking them to be an adult. I think by allowing kids to mature too slowly and no pushing them to grow, you hold them back mentally and create kids that are mentally fragile and without a real identity. Pair that with giving them medication to ease the "stress" and allowing them to sit in front of a computer and play shooting video games for fun... you have now set yourself up for a kid that doesn't respect consequences, doesn't fit in to society, doesn't have a purpose in life, and is potentially fried from chemicals.
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Post by Angelo on Feb 16, 2018 3:28:28 GMT -5
Aren't people required to be tested, licensed, and registered to drive a vehicle? Isn't every vehicle out there legally required to be registered with the government and insured if people want to drive it on public roads? Isn't crazy to think that it's necessary and feasible to heavily regulate car usage but to think comparable gun regulations are completely untenable? Guns are registered and owners are tested and regulated... when people follow the laws. Except registration, testing, and most regulation is left of to the states, many of which pretty much say fuck it do almost whatever you want.
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Post by slaytan on Feb 16, 2018 5:36:33 GMT -5
Uses for guns: Hunting Target shooting Home defense Collector's items Answer this seriously...Do you think there are more car related deaths each year or gun related deaths? I fully believe in banning the one that causes more deaths. I hope that we can push to ban the one that's fully responsible for more deaths, whichever that may be. Isn't it crazy that a combination of laws and education have caused a near-constant decrease in the number of deaths per mile driven over the past century? Must be a pure coincidence that driving is heavily regulated and has never been safer, huh? Isn't that a wild fluke? It absolutely isn’t laws or education. It’s 100% based on technology. The same car crash that decapitated you in 1950 causes you zero physical damage today. I understand the calls for gun control after situations like this. But gun control will cause 1000 times as many gun deaths in the long run. Not by school shooters though. Look at Mexico. They don’t have school shootings, and they have strict gun control. So safe there.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Feb 16, 2018 8:16:46 GMT -5
Slayton, you're probably right if you're talking about banning guns.
I don't know that anyone is really going for the "ban guns" angle though, outside of emotional reactions.
For the dumb dumb with the "what about cars?" argument....if you want to go as far as to equate guns to cars, why don't we treat them the same? Gotta test to operate, have to have it licensed and insured, etc.
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