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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 20:19:09 GMT -5
So was Vale trolling when he said that Dana gave him a fight with Lesnar and said he has to move up to HW? I want to see Jones fight at HW. Why not just strip him of the title, give him a hefty fine, and tell him he has to fight at HW going forward, and if he fails again he's permanently cut? Seems reasonable to me. You really didn't see his announcement at the last ppv? They had the video package and the whole deal. Don't take my word for it, go find it on youtube. No I didn't see it but I watched 2 youtube promos so ok, but I don't understand how this can be happening if Jones is going to be suspended? Either he's suspended and the fight's not happening or he isn't and it is. What's the deal here and if so, when would the fight happen? Also, didn't you also say Jones was going to fight Gus?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 20:22:07 GMT -5
So was Vale trolling when he said that Dana gave him a fight with Lesnar and said he has to move up to HW? I want to see Jones fight at HW. Why not just strip him of the title, give him a hefty fine, and tell him he has to fight at HW going forward, and if he fails again he's permanently cut? Seems reasonable to me. There is no more fair for Jones. Dude has tested positive for coke, estrogen blocker, and now an additional failed test for roofs. Fuck that guy, I think the only person who has tested positive more times is Josh Barnett. No there isn't and he's my most hated fighter of all time (which is ironic if the Brock fight is happening cause he's my 2nd most hated fighter, so Jones is the only guy I could ever root for him against lol)... But the thing that bugs me is that both because of how much I hate Jones and how great a fighter he is I want to see him LEGITIMATELY lose to a better fighter. Lets face it, he really probably is the best fighter we've ever seen. I mean most of us would be hard pressed to say we'd bet money against him vs too many, if ANY fighters at any weight in the entire world. So I don't want to see him suspended, I want to see him fight every really good fighter out there at both HW and LHW (well he's fought most at LHW so I have always really wanted to see him at HW) and I want to see him FINALLY lose to someone. He's also too exciting NOT to watch. If he gets suspended and never fights again or doesn't fight till he's past his prime and then loses then we'll never really know if there was anyone else better than him out there, and he kind of ends up winning the GOAT argument by default IMO. Many will say he would disqualify himself because of his failed drug tests, but I'm still going to say he hasn't IMO as long as he has always looked head and shoulders above everyone else and beaten everyone else so easily. It would just piss me off to see him never lose and then get suspended and retire.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 20:27:53 GMT -5
You really didn't see his announcement at the last ppv? They had the video package and the whole deal. Don't take my word for it, go find it on youtube. No I didn't see it but I watched 2 youtube promos so ok, but I don't understand how this can be happening if Jones is going to be suspended? Either he's suspended and the fight's not happening or he isn't and it is. What's the deal here and if so, when would the fight happen? Also, didn't you also say Jones was going to fight Gus? Im not dana white dude. You got questions I don't have answers to. All I know is that Jones vs Brock is the money fight and I can see why. Live reports say the crowd popped huge when the promotional video aired.
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Post by slaytan on Sept 15, 2017 20:56:56 GMT -5
No I didn't see it but I watched 2 youtube promos so ok, but I don't understand how this can be happening if Jones is going to be suspended? Either he's suspended and the fight's not happening or he isn't and it is. What's the deal here and if so, when would the fight happen? Also, didn't you also say Jones was going to fight Gus? Im not dana white dude. You got questions I don't have answers to. All I know is that Jones vs Brock is the money fight and I can see why. Live reports say the crowd popped huge when the promotional video aired. I only want to see it if Brock crushes him. They're likely to both pop for roids after, and nobody would care. Jones will definitely roid up for Brock. If either one test negative, it's no because he was clean
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 21:05:12 GMT -5
More juice in this fight than a PRIDE GP.
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 16, 2017 5:07:34 GMT -5
GET A FUCKING CLUE!!
Jones isn't shit without roids or he wouldn't risk taking them. FACT.
No one risks it all and fucks up that many times if they have the natural abilities to get the job done. FACT.
Steroid free Jones is a big skinny pussy.
This shit is dead in the water.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 6:54:16 GMT -5
There is no more fair for Jones. Dude has tested positive for coke, estrogen blocker, and now an additional failed test for roofs. Fuck that guy, I think the only person who has tested positive more times is Josh Barnett. No there isn't and he's my most hated fighter of all time (which is ironic if the Brock fight is happening cause he's my 2nd most hated fighter, so Jones is the only guy I could ever root for him against lol)... But the thing that bugs me is that both because of how much I hate Jones and how great a fighter he is I want to see him LEGITIMATELY lose to a better fighter. Lets face it, he really probably is the best fighter we've ever seen. I mean most of us would be hard pressed to say we'd bet money against him vs too many, if ANY fighters at any weight in the entire world. So I don't want to see him suspended, I want to see him fight every really good fighter out there at both HW and LHW (well he's fought most at LHW so I have always really wanted to see him at HW) and I want to see him FINALLY lose to someone. He's also too exciting NOT to watch. If he gets suspended and never fights again or doesn't fight till he's past his prime and then loses then we'll never really know if there was anyone else better than him out there, and he kind of ends up winning the GOAT argument by default IMO. Many will say he would disqualify himself because of his failed drug tests, but I'm still going to say he hasn't IMO as long as he has always looked head and shoulders above everyone else and beaten everyone else so easily. It would just piss me off to see him never lose and then get suspended and retire. Well, who knows how Jones/DC 2 would have gone if Jon didn't have a steroid that helps with conditioning in his body against an almost 40 fat guy that was (arguably) winning the fight. Everybody points to the headkick as evidence that roofs didn't have anything to do with it but forget that it was later in the fight after DC slowed a bit but Jon still had gas in the take. Was that because Jon is a super-athlete (possibly) or was it because Jon was juiced up on synthetic gas? I am all for getting rid of USADA and letting everyone juice to the gills but if those are the rules, those are the rules. Jon should be an afterthought now. Was he able to squeak out the Gus fight because of roids? Was OSP his only clean fight where he looked like garbage? I don't know and I don't care to know after all this. I am usually one to give a guy a pass, I've done it for other people but this is the 3rd failed test so I have no sympathy.
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Post by jamesod on Sept 16, 2017 10:58:08 GMT -5
I absolutely agree. You have to consider guys like Chuck, Shogun, etc.
and I was confusing LHW GOAT and P4P Goat, so you are correct, DC's wins at HW mean nothing to his LHW GOAT status.
I think it's hard to take Jones completely out of the equation because most people believe he had the talent and didn't need the roids. Also, it's probably pretty naïve to believe the other guys, including DC, weren't on something at some point. I guess it's innocent until proven guilty though. I think Jones f'ked up too many times for people to give him any passes at this point. He may be the Lance Armstrong of MMA now.
It's definitely an interesting discussion.
I disagree that you have to consider different era's in regards to the GOAT argument. The "AT" stands for "all-time" and as you mentioned, today's fighters are better than our icons of yesteryear. It's not the greatest fighter of the 90's etc, but of "all time" and currently fighters are at an all time high in regards to their skills and abilities. The thing is, though, then it almost becomes a meaningless discussion. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb simply couldn't hit sliders. Walter Johnson couldn't throw one. So, Mike Trout is unquestionably the GOAT baseball player? That seems weird to me. I think maybe a better way to look at it is how good was that person compared to their peers. If Babe Ruth was head and shoulders better than his peers for 20 years, and Mike Trout was slightly ahead of his peers during his career, a reasonable argument could be made that Babe Ruth is the GOAT despite the fact that Mike Trout is undoubtedly a more skilled baseball player. If the question was "who is the most skilled baseball player of all time" then Ruth wouldn't be in the conversation. The word "greatest" though is probably open to more interpretations than "most skilled." And that's how I've always approached the GOAT conversation. Cormier would crush Liddell, Tito, or Frank Shamrock in their primes. Crush them. But I'm not sure that necessarily means he's the GOAT LHW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 16:14:47 GMT -5
GET A FUCKING CLUE!! Jones isn't shit without roids or he wouldn't risk taking them. FACT. No one risks it all and fucks up that many times if they have the natural abilities to get the job done. FACT. Steroid free Jones is a big skinny pussy. This shit is dead in the water. Hey listen, I hate Jones as much as you, but the statement that he "isn't shit without roids" is going a bit far. So what, you think he'd be ranked #15 and have lost half his fights without the roids? That's CRAZY talk. MAYBE he wouldn't have beaten DC, and I like to believe that's true, and maybe not Gus either, but that's about it. The rest of the guys he beat he'd still have beaten. He's just SUPER insecure even DESPITE his skills, which just goes to show his lack of confidence. But to try to pretend he'd have never won the belt or something without the roids? That's nuts. His reach and wrestling alone without any other skills or PEDs would probably have been enough to get him into the UFC.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 16:17:15 GMT -5
No there isn't and he's my most hated fighter of all time (which is ironic if the Brock fight is happening cause he's my 2nd most hated fighter, so Jones is the only guy I could ever root for him against lol)... But the thing that bugs me is that both because of how much I hate Jones and how great a fighter he is I want to see him LEGITIMATELY lose to a better fighter. Lets face it, he really probably is the best fighter we've ever seen. I mean most of us would be hard pressed to say we'd bet money against him vs too many, if ANY fighters at any weight in the entire world. So I don't want to see him suspended, I want to see him fight every really good fighter out there at both HW and LHW (well he's fought most at LHW so I have always really wanted to see him at HW) and I want to see him FINALLY lose to someone. He's also too exciting NOT to watch. If he gets suspended and never fights again or doesn't fight till he's past his prime and then loses then we'll never really know if there was anyone else better than him out there, and he kind of ends up winning the GOAT argument by default IMO. Many will say he would disqualify himself because of his failed drug tests, but I'm still going to say he hasn't IMO as long as he has always looked head and shoulders above everyone else and beaten everyone else so easily. It would just piss me off to see him never lose and then get suspended and retire. Well, who knows how Jones/DC 2 would have gone if Jon didn't have a steroid that helps with conditioning in his body against an almost 40 fat guy that was (arguably) winning the fight. Everybody points to the headkick as evidence that roofs didn't have anything to do with it but forget that it was later in the fight after DC slowed a bit but Jon still had gas in the take. Was that because Jon is a super-athlete (possibly) or was it because Jon was juiced up on synthetic gas? I am all for getting rid of USADA and letting everyone juice to the gills but if those are the rules, those are the rules. Jon should be an afterthought now. Was he able to squeak out the Gus fight because of roids? Was OSP his only clean fight where he looked like garbage? I don't know and I don't care to know after all this. I am usually one to give a guy a pass, I've done it for other people but this is the 3rd failed test so I have no sympathy. I think you don't realize that we already agree on pretty much all of this. I think DC would have had a good chance to beat him and so would Gus, and I don't want him given a free pass at all as what he has done wrong is so fucked up he needs to pay for it. I'm just saying FOR ME PERSONALLY I'd like to see him fight at HW, regardless of whether or not he's on roids, because I want to see him lose, and I just want to see him fight in exciting fights so FOR ME it would be a bummer not to see him fight anymore. I'm not making any comments about giving him a free pass.
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 16, 2017 17:11:58 GMT -5
GET A FUCKING CLUE!! Jones isn't shit without roids or he wouldn't risk taking them. FACT. No one risks it all and fucks up that many times if they have the natural abilities to get the job done. FACT. Steroid free Jones is a big skinny pussy. This shit is dead in the water. Hey listen, I hate Jones as much as you, but the statement that he "isn't shit with roids" is going a bit far. So what, you think he'd be ranked #15 and have lost half his fights without the roids? That's CRAZY talk. MAYBE he wouldn't have beaten DC, and I like to believe that's true, and maybe not Gus either, but that's about it. The rest of the guys he beat he'd still have beaten. He's just SUPER insecure even DESPITE his skills, which just goes to show his lack of confidence. But to try to pretend he'd have never won the belt or something without the roids? That's nuts. His reach and wrestling alone without any other skills or PEDs would probably have been enough to get him into the UFC. Your argument is null and void because he's spent his whole career on roids. He knew he wasn't that good so he took roids. Facts. End of story.
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Post by slaytan on Sept 17, 2017 14:12:22 GMT -5
^ TROOF
Jones without ROIDS would never have been able to have the power he has and still make LHW -FACT.
He would have been an also ran at HW most notable for HL reel losses to the big boys
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Post by agrappleaday on Sept 19, 2017 23:07:37 GMT -5
I disagree that you have to consider different era's in regards to the GOAT argument. The "AT" stands for "all-time" and as you mentioned, today's fighters are better than our icons of yesteryear. It's not the greatest fighter of the 90's etc, but of "all time" and currently fighters are at an all time high in regards to their skills and abilities. The thing is, though, then it almost becomes a meaningless discussion. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb simply couldn't hit sliders. Walter Johnson couldn't throw one. So, Mike Trout is unquestionably the GOAT baseball player? That seems weird to me. I think maybe a better way to look at it is how good was that person compared to their peers. If Babe Ruth was head and shoulders better than his peers for 20 years, and Mike Trout was slightly ahead of his peers during his career, a reasonable argument could be made that Babe Ruth is the GOAT despite the fact that Mike Trout is undoubtedly a more skilled baseball player. If the question was "who is the most skilled baseball player of all time" then Ruth wouldn't be in the conversation. The word "greatest" though is probably open to more interpretations than "most skilled." And that's how I've always approached the GOAT conversation. Cormier would crush Liddell, Tito, or Frank Shamrock in their primes. Crush them. But I'm not sure that necessarily means he's the GOAT LHW. Then I suppose the discussion should be about "the greatest of their time"? GOTT? But yes, Mike Trout was the shit.
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Post by adamg01 on Sept 22, 2017 23:23:15 GMT -5
Vegas should start putting odds on fighters getting popped. For instance, the Jessica/Claudia fight I just watched. Jessica is definitely on the juice, a strong possibility one of them gets caught riding dirty.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Sept 25, 2017 11:23:26 GMT -5
I'd like to see all these "facts" and "troof" that Jones has been taking PEDs his whole career. Please provide the necessary documentation to back up your claim.
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 25, 2017 12:06:19 GMT -5
I'd like to see all these "facts" and "troof" that Jones has been taking PEDs his whole career. Please provide the necessary documentation to back up your claim. I don't know... Maybe all the failed tests??
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Post by peAk on Sept 25, 2017 12:06:47 GMT -5
Vegas should start putting odds on fighters getting popped. For instance, the Jessica/Claudia fight I just watched. Jessica is definitely on the juice, a strong possibility one of them gets caught riding dirty. They did look quite juiced.....err....manly
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Sept 25, 2017 15:37:16 GMT -5
I'd like to see all these "facts" and "troof" that Jones has been taking PEDs his whole career. Please provide the necessary documentation to back up your claim. I don't know... Maybe all the failed tests?? Well if we look at all field tests over the past 8 years the facts and troofs are that he failed two of them. So two of 30-40 tests means he's been cheating his whole career? That's speculation - not facts and troofs.
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Post by TheStorm on Sept 27, 2017 9:52:36 GMT -5
I don't know... Maybe all the failed tests?? Well if we look at all field tests over the past 8 years the facts and troofs are that he failed two of them. So two of 30-40 tests means he's been cheating his whole career? That's speculation - not facts and troofs. Testing has gotten much more strict the past few years and suddenly it’s becoming A LOT more common for fighters to pop. You think they just started roiding when USADA came in? Or maybe they finally started failing the tests?
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Sept 27, 2017 10:47:42 GMT -5
Well if we look at all field tests over the past 8 years the facts and troofs are that he failed two of them. So two of 30-40 tests means he's been cheating his whole career? That's speculation - not facts and troofs. Testing has gotten much more strict the past few years and suddenly it’s becoming A LOT more common for fighters to pop. You think they just started roiding when USADA came in? Or maybe they finally started failing the tests? Totally agree that most of these guys have probably been using PEDs their whole career, but again - that's speculation. We'll never know for sure, so it's not really fair to assume that's the case for Jon Jones or any other fighter unless we have documented facts that say otherwise. We dont, therefore anyone who starts preaching "facts" and "troofs" is really just ignorant.
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Post by adamg01 on Sept 27, 2017 15:41:59 GMT -5
Testing has gotten much more strict the past few years and suddenly it’s becoming A LOT more common for fighters to pop. You think they just started roiding when USADA came in? Or maybe they finally started failing the tests? Totally agree that most of these guys have probably been using PEDs their whole career, but again - that's speculation. We'll never know for sure, so it's not really fair to assume that's the case for Jon Jones or any other fighter unless we have documented facts that say otherwise. We dont, therefore anyone who starts preaching "facts" and "troofs" is really just ignorant. That's a valid point. I give them the benefit of the doubt until they get caught. Unless they are Brazilian or Russian. In that case, they just haven't got caught yet. Shogun is legit though.
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Post by TheStorm on Sept 27, 2017 19:18:55 GMT -5
Testing has gotten much more strict the past few years and suddenly it’s becoming A LOT more common for fighters to pop. You think they just started roiding when USADA came in? Or maybe they finally started failing the tests? Totally agree that most of these guys have probably been using PEDs their whole career, but again - that's speculation. We'll never know for sure, so it's not really fair to assume that's the case for Jon Jones or any other fighter unless we have documented facts that say otherwise. We dont, therefore anyone who starts preaching "facts" and "troofs" is really just ignorant. You are most definitely correct that people cannot claim facts without looking like idiots. I do believe it IS safe to to assume that he has been on for longer though. There’s no way to go back and prove he did in the past, but when you start getting hit multiple times, you make it safe for others to assume it’s not the first couple times and slap that label on you as once a cheater, always a cheater.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 20:03:56 GMT -5
That Jones wasn't on it the whole time? Who cares, he was on it for at least two fights and popped for coke. I give all fighters the benefit of the doubt, once. After that I'm assuming you cycled correctly your other fights.
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Post by slaytan on Oct 10, 2017 16:00:51 GMT -5
GET A FUCKING CLUE!! Jones isn't shit without roids or he wouldn't risk taking them. FACT. No one risks it all and fucks up that many times if they have the natural abilities to get the job done. FACT. Steroid free Jones is a big skinny pussy. This shit is dead in the water. Hey listen, I hate Jones as much as you, but the statement that he "isn't shit without roids" is going a bit far. So what, you think he'd be ranked #15 and have lost half his fights without the roids? That's CRAZY talk. Actually it’s not crazy at all. If Jones has been roiding it up the whole time, chances are it’s the difference between him being the youngest champ ever, and a guy who Goes 2-5 and is forgotten. MMA is won and lost hinging on microscopic advantages. Without rounds, Jones may have slowed before (actual athlete) DC did and got KOd himself. Without roids, Jones may well have lost a boring decision to roided up Stephan Boner. Without roids, Jones may not have been able to put in the hours in the gym training techniques and sparring due to needing more down time.
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Post by adamg01 on Oct 10, 2017 17:58:41 GMT -5
Hey listen, I hate Jones as much as you, but the statement that he "isn't shit without roids" is going a bit far. So what, you think he'd be ranked #15 and have lost half his fights without the roids? That's CRAZY talk. Actually it’s not crazy at all. If Jones has been roiding it up the whole time, chances are it’s the difference between him being the youngest champ ever, and a guy who Goes 2-5 and is forgotten. MMA is won and lost hinging on microscopic advantages. Without rounds, Jones may have slowed before (actual athlete) DC did and got KOd himself. Without roids, Jones may well have lost a boring decision to roided up Stephan Boner. Without roids, Jones may not have been able to put in the hours in the gym training techniques and sparring due to needing more down time. That sucks that MM is prob the GOAT now. That little shit with his dumbo ears!
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Post by slaytan on Oct 10, 2017 18:09:08 GMT -5
Actually it’s not crazy at all. If Jones has been roiding it up the whole time, chances are it’s the difference between him being the youngest champ ever, and a guy who Goes 2-5 and is forgotten. MMA is won and lost hinging on microscopic advantages. Without rounds, Jones may have slowed before (actual athlete) DC did and got KOd himself. Without roids, Jones may well have lost a boring decision to roided up Stephan Boner. Without roids, Jones may not have been able to put in the hours in the gym training techniques and sparring due to needing more down time. That sucks that MM is prob the GOAT now. That little shit with his dumbo ears! He’s not eligible because he’s basically a female fighters
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Post by clubman on Oct 10, 2017 19:06:45 GMT -5
I cant believe Mighty Mouse is officially the Michael Jordan of MMA. I just puked a little in my mouth
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 14:18:53 GMT -5
I cant believe Mighty Mouse is officially the Michael Jordan of MMA. I just puked a little in my mouth Were you looking in the mirror at the time?
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Post by adamg01 on Oct 20, 2017 7:48:43 GMT -5
They just flagged Lil Nog as well.
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Post by Johnny on Oct 20, 2017 12:41:08 GMT -5
They just flagged Lil Nog as well. Damn! How will he EVER win the title now???
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