Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 17:17:38 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't understand what they mean here. What's the bottom line?
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Post by HumanAgent on Sept 1, 2017 17:23:18 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't understand what they mean here. What's the bottom line? Nothing at all. The blood test doesn't test for the steroid he tested positive for in the urine test. Why does it take so long to test a B sample? Why not test the Bodega sample before announcing it?
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Post by daywork on Sept 12, 2017 22:37:10 GMT -5
B sample was also positive.
So is he done now?
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Post by boboplata on Sept 13, 2017 1:57:16 GMT -5
B sample was also positive. So is he done now? One-FC
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 13, 2017 5:54:58 GMT -5
OneFC is probably where he will go. Bellator won't mess with him
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Post by peAk on Sept 13, 2017 7:38:23 GMT -5
but...but....but....his blood test came back negative!?!?!?!?!?!
So what if they don't test for the fucking drug that he got busted for in his urine test.
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Post by boboplata on Sept 13, 2017 8:54:43 GMT -5
I like that Jones and crew are keeping their traps shut. You just can't defend the indefensible. He was able to dodge one of usada's visits by hiding under the octagon, but this one? Nah.
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 13, 2017 13:49:10 GMT -5
He will get a slap on the wrist.
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Post by Premier on Sept 13, 2017 14:40:16 GMT -5
I'm fine with brushing all of this under the rug. Call it an USADA mistake.
A big percentage of them cheat. And the ones that don't, I can probably live without. Fuck it.
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Post by peAk on Sept 13, 2017 14:49:23 GMT -5
I'm fine with brushing all of this under the rug. Call it an USADA mistake. A big percentage of them cheat. And the ones that don't, I can probably live without. Fuck it. I am fine with brushing them all under the rug BESIDES Jones's
I want him to fucking suffer.
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Post by Premier on Sept 13, 2017 14:54:24 GMT -5
I feel you about Jones. But I just want the UFC to be fun again. And I am willing to look the other way for it. To feel this way, you have to give up on the notion that this is a legitimate sport. But I gave up on that when the new owners came around and didn't give a fuck about ranking or titles.
Let's just enjoy the violence now. Even if its a bunch of cheating fucks.
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Post by johncfc on Sept 13, 2017 16:28:15 GMT -5
I like that Jones and crew are keeping their traps shut. You just can't defend the indefensible. He was able to dodge one of usada's visits by hiding under the octagon, but this one? Nah. What can he or his team say, other than it was a tainted supplement? I forgot about the hiding under the octagon. I'm just confused as to why he has risked his career and earning potential by roiding? I think most of us feel he has the talent and doesn't need to. Sad/stupid situation all around
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 13, 2017 17:11:01 GMT -5
Simple. Without it he doesn't have the potential. It's pretty easy to understand really.
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Post by boboplata on Sept 13, 2017 20:29:57 GMT -5
Simple. Without it he doesn't have the potential. It's pretty easy to understand really. Give the title back to Shogun.
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 13, 2017 22:13:51 GMT -5
DC is the LHW goat, easily.
The only person he hasn't won against is a roided up 30 year old.
Jones off roids, DC wins easily.
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Post by peAk on Sept 14, 2017 7:03:22 GMT -5
DC is the LHW goat, easily. The only person he hasn't won against is a roided up 30 year old. Jones off roids, DC wins easily. Hard to argue, really.
Hell, call him the HW GOAT as well. He'd easily beat any of those guys too.
Jones was just a science project
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Post by jamesod on Sept 14, 2017 7:51:29 GMT -5
DC is the LHW goat, easily. The only person he hasn't won against is a roided up 30 year old. Jones off roids, DC wins easily. Hard to argue, really.
Hell, call him the HW GOAT as well. He'd easily beat any of those guys too.
Jones was just a science project
At LHW, DC has beaten: Patrick Cummings, an 83-year old middleweight Dan Henderson, a 65-year old middleweight Anderson Silva, Anthony Johnson and Gus (by split decision). So, he's beat two quality opponent, one of which was by split decision. I'm not sure how it's such a no brainer to you that he's the LHW GOAT. I'm not saying he's not in the running. I'm just saying it's not a no brainer.
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Post by peAk on Sept 14, 2017 9:01:25 GMT -5
Hard to argue, really.
Hell, call him the HW GOAT as well. He'd easily beat any of those guys too.
Jones was just a science project
At LHW, DC has beaten: Patrick Cummings, an 83-year old middleweight Dan Henderson, a 65-year old middleweight Anderson Silva, Anthony Johnson and Gus (by split decision). So, he's beat two quality opponent, one of which was by split decision. I'm not sure how it's such a no brainer to you that he's the LHW GOAT. I'm not saying he's not in the running. I'm just saying it's not a no brainer. fair enough but I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Gus and Anthony, in most people's eyes at least, were the two top guys in the division by a pretty big margin. DC beat both of these guys (2X with Rumble) with Jones only fighting one of them to a close, and somewhat controversial, win.
Couple that with the fact that a lot of guys Jones beat were past their primes. Besides DC, none of Jones's past fighters are even sniffing at a title currently with the exception of Gus, again, whom DC beat. Don't get me wrong, I am not playing down Jones's wins, he beat everyone they threw at him. I am only pointing out that it's easy to downplay opponents after the fact. A few of Jones's wins were against middle weights as well.
Then you have to remember the success at HW that DC had and I think that separates him from a lot, if not all, the LHW.
I say this not as a fan of DCs, just looking at the facts.
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Post by jamesod on Sept 14, 2017 9:21:05 GMT -5
Understood. But I don't think you can count HW wins when you're addressing the Q of "who is the LHW GOAT." That seems obvious to me.
And I wasn't suggesting that JBJ is the GOAT LHW. I think you either: (1) ignore the roids and say JBJ is the GOAT LHW (just counting his wins that weren't later declared no contests due to roids); or (2) you say JBJ is disqualified from GOAT consideration because of the roids. I assumed you were doing the latter.
In which case you need to compare DC to other LHWs - not JBJ - to determine if DC is the GOAT LHW. And my only point is that DC's resume is he has beat two legit top opponents at LHW. Is that better than Chuck's run? Tito's? Frank Shamrock's? Now you're comparing eras and that's always tough because today's fighters are just better, 95% of the time, than fighters from 10 years ago.
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Post by peAk on Sept 14, 2017 9:32:04 GMT -5
Understood. But I don't think you can count HW wins when you're addressing the Q of "who is the LHW GOAT." That seems obvious to me. And I wasn't suggesting that JBJ is the GOAT LHW. I think you either: (1) ignore the roids and say JBJ is the GOAT LHW (just counting his wins that weren't later declared no contests due to roids); or (2) you say JBJ is disqualified from GOAT consideration because of the roids. I assumed you were doing the latter. In which case you need to compare DC to other LHWs - not JBJ - to determine if DC is the GOAT LHW. And my only point is that DC's resume is he has beat two legit top opponents at LHW. Is that better than Chuck's run? Tito's? Frank Shamrock's? Now you're comparing eras and that's always tough because today's fighters are just better, 95% of the time, than fighters from 10 years ago. I absolutely agree. You have to consider guys like Chuck, Shogun, etc.
and I was confusing LHW GOAT and P4P Goat, so you are correct, DC's wins at HW mean nothing to his LHW GOAT status.
I think it's hard to take Jones completely out of the equation because most people believe he had the talent and didn't need the roids. Also, it's probably pretty naïve to believe the other guys, including DC, weren't on something at some point. I guess it's innocent until proven guilty though. I think Jones f'ked up too many times for people to give him any passes at this point. He may be the Lance Armstrong of MMA now.
It's definitely an interesting discussion.
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Post by locogato11283 on Sept 14, 2017 9:37:50 GMT -5
D.C. has beaten everyone. Jones off roids isn't shit, which is why he risks getting caught. Very simple.
D.C. is the goat, hands down.
Mir, Nelson, Gus, Rumble.. He might be at the top P4P with wins across two divisions.
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Post by jamesod on Sept 14, 2017 10:06:12 GMT -5
D.C. has beaten everyone. Jones off roids isn't shit, which is why he risks getting caught. Very simple. For the current UFC rankings of the top fourteen contenders at LHW, he has beat the #1 contender and the #11 contender. As to your second point, I think at the very least Jones himself must question his abilities off roids for him to risk ending his career over them.
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Post by peAk on Sept 14, 2017 10:11:11 GMT -5
If they suspend Jones for 4 years, any chance he makes any type of comeback?
If not, how about 2 years?
I still have this strange feeling he's going to get out of this from too harsh of a punishment. Money talks and I just think some sneaky things are going to happen moving forward.
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Post by agrappleaday on Sept 14, 2017 15:04:23 GMT -5
Understood. But I don't think you can count HW wins when you're addressing the Q of "who is the LHW GOAT." That seems obvious to me. And I wasn't suggesting that JBJ is the GOAT LHW. I think you either: (1) ignore the roids and say JBJ is the GOAT LHW (just counting his wins that weren't later declared no contests due to roids); or (2) you say JBJ is disqualified from GOAT consideration because of the roids. I assumed you were doing the latter. In which case you need to compare DC to other LHWs - not JBJ - to determine if DC is the GOAT LHW. And my only point is that DC's resume is he has beat two legit top opponents at LHW. Is that better than Chuck's run? Tito's? Frank Shamrock's? Now you're comparing eras and that's always tough because today's fighters are just better, 95% of the time, than fighters from 10 years ago. I absolutely agree. You have to consider guys like Chuck, Shogun, etc.
and I was confusing LHW GOAT and P4P Goat, so you are correct, DC's wins at HW mean nothing to his LHW GOAT status.
I think it's hard to take Jones completely out of the equation because most people believe he had the talent and didn't need the roids. Also, it's probably pretty naïve to believe the other guys, including DC, weren't on something at some point. I guess it's innocent until proven guilty though. I think Jones f'ked up too many times for people to give him any passes at this point. He may be the Lance Armstrong of MMA now.
It's definitely an interesting discussion.
I disagree that you have to consider different era's in regards to the GOAT argument. The "AT" stands for "all-time" and as you mentioned, today's fighters are better than our icons of yesteryear. It's not the greatest fighter of the 90's etc, but of "all time" and currently fighters are at an all time high in regards to their skills and abilities.
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Post by slaytan on Sept 14, 2017 15:43:34 GMT -5
Understood. But I don't think you can count HW wins when you're addressing the Q of "who is the LHW GOAT." That seems obvious to me. And I wasn't suggesting that JBJ is the GOAT LHW. I think you either: (1) ignore the roids and say JBJ is the GOAT LHW (just counting his wins that weren't later declared no contests due to roids); or (2) you say JBJ is disqualified from GOAT consideration because of the roids. I assumed you were doing the latter. In which case you need to compare DC to other LHWs - not JBJ - to determine if DC is the GOAT LHW. And my only point is that DC's resume is he has beat two legit top opponents at LHW. Is that better than Chuck's run? Tito's? Frank Shamrock's? Now you're comparing eras and that's always tough because today's fighters are just better, 95% of the time, than fighters from 10 years ago. Answer: yes
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Post by peAk on Sept 14, 2017 20:01:14 GMT -5
I absolutely agree. You have to consider guys like Chuck, Shogun, etc.
and I was confusing LHW GOAT and P4P Goat, so you are correct, DC's wins at HW mean nothing to his LHW GOAT status.
I think it's hard to take Jones completely out of the equation because most people believe he had the talent and didn't need the roids. Also, it's probably pretty naïve to believe the other guys, including DC, weren't on something at some point. I guess it's innocent until proven guilty though. I think Jones f'ked up too many times for people to give him any passes at this point. He may be the Lance Armstrong of MMA now.
It's definitely an interesting discussion.
I disagree that you have to consider different era's in regards to the GOAT argument. The "AT" stands for "all-time" and as you mentioned, today's fighters are better than our icons of yesteryear. It's not the greatest fighter of the 90's etc, but of "all time" and currently fighters are at an all time high in regards to their skills and abilities. Okay, I just thought we were talking about achievements and what they did the at the time of their reign I agree that fighters today are much more advanced than 10-15 years ago.
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Post by daywork on Sept 14, 2017 21:03:51 GMT -5
If they suspend Jones for 4 years, any chance he makes any type of comeback? If not, how about 2 years? I still have this strange feeling he's going to get out of this from too harsh of a punishment. Money talks and I just think some sneaky things are going to happen moving forward. 4 years is a death sentence. No chance of him coming back.
2 years. He has a chance to come back. I don't think the sport will pass him by in 2 years. Plus the way the new company is running things. They aren't looking to bring up new talent, they just want the "show" fights.
If he gets out of this. I think it just makes the UFC look bad.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 18:59:12 GMT -5
So was Vale trolling when he said that Dana gave him a fight with Lesnar and said he has to move up to HW?
I want to see Jones fight at HW.
Why not just strip him of the title, give him a hefty fine, and tell him he has to fight at HW going forward, and if he fails again he's permanently cut?
Seems reasonable to me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 19:32:43 GMT -5
So was Vale trolling when he said that Dana gave him a fight with Lesnar and said he has to move up to HW? I want to see Jones fight at HW. Why not just strip him of the title, give him a hefty fine, and tell him he has to fight at HW going forward, and if he fails again he's permanently cut? Seems reasonable to me. You really didn't see his announcement at the last ppv? They had the video package and the whole deal. Don't take my word for it, go find it on youtube.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 20:05:22 GMT -5
So was Vale trolling when he said that Dana gave him a fight with Lesnar and said he has to move up to HW? I want to see Jones fight at HW. Why not just strip him of the title, give him a hefty fine, and tell him he has to fight at HW going forward, and if he fails again he's permanently cut? Seems reasonable to me. There is no more fair for Jones. Dude has tested positive for coke, estrogen blocker, and now an additional failed test for roofs. Fuck that guy, I think the only person who has tested positive more times is Josh Barnett.
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