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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 22:12:02 GMT -5
Everything I said made sense dude. It's not fair to take credit from Gaethje cause he's a very good fighter, he just isn't going to last long with the shots he takes, but as long as he is around, which should be a while, every fight will be a barn burner. Him vs Poirer, Alvarez and Johnson have all been great and he's seriously hurt all of them, plus, he has all the skills necessary really: great leg kicks, great hands, good wrestling, good cardio, etc. If he didn't take so many risks and fought conservatively he could do well also, but he'd never do that, and if he did he wouldn't be so exciting. Calling him another Tank Abbot was never fair.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 14, 2018 22:13:39 GMT -5
All the great skills?!
The most important skill is DEFENSE! He has none.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 22:21:26 GMT -5
All the great skills?! The most important skill is DEFENSE! He has none. If he had no defense then he wouldn't have beaten Johnson, gone 3 1/2 rounds with Alvarez or 4 with Poirer, all guys who are knockout artists with good finishing percentages. If you look at those guys' records you will see that most guys don't last that long with them and certainly not fighting the way Gaethje does and I'd think you'd realize that one good form off "defense" is having a strong offense, which has worked for him in 18 out of his 20 fights...not too bad percentage wise by my math... It's true that Gaethje only has one mode which is full on offense but he nearly finished Alvarez and also badly hurt Poirer tonight. I think that IF Gaethje chose to fight more carefully he certainly could defend more shots and go the distance with more guys but that's just not his style. You are still 100% wrong in saying he only beat Johnson cause he threw caution to the wind and is another Tank Abbott.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 14, 2018 22:29:16 GMT -5
He gets as far as he does in fights because he has an insane chin and is tough. Like I said from the start, that will only get you so far.
He’s a brawler - no different than Tank Abbot or Lenord Garcia. Tough guys who throw caution to the wind and rely on wild striking.
Justin will only get worse with every fight due to the amount of head trauma he continues to take. I bet within two more fights his chin will finally go, and when that happens, his career is over.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 22:40:04 GMT -5
He gets as far as he does in fights because he has an insane chin and is tough. Like I said from the start, that will only get you so far. He’s a brawler - no different than Tank Abbot or Lenord Garcia. Tough guys who throw caution to the wind and rely on wild striking. Justin will only get worse with every fight due to the amount of head trauma he continues to take. I bet within two more fights his chin will finally go, and when that happens, his career is over. Whether or not his chin goes in 2 fights he's WAY better than Tank or Garcia and that's where we differ. If you can't see how much more skill he has in his hand technique, leg kicks and wrestling than those two then you are blind and don't know what you are watching. It's not just his chin or toughness that has gotten him where he is but his hand speed, hand skills, leg kicks, TDD, cardio, etc. He's talented, he's not just tough. IMO he'd get farther if he fought smarter, but he's got talent. You can't get as far as he has without it, and comparing him to Tank or Garcia isn't fair. We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 14, 2018 22:52:46 GMT -5
Yeah maybe you’re right about comparing Justin to Tank... Tank had 2 wins in the UFC, so it’s not fair to give Justin that much respect.
But Lenord Garcia only had 1 win in the UFC so the comparison stands! Both guys have 1 win.
In fact, Justin Isn’t that much different than CM Punk...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 23:04:20 GMT -5
Yeah maybe you’re right about comparing Justin to Tank... Tank had 2 wins in the UFC, so it’s not fair to give Tank that much respect. But Lenord Garcia only had 1 win in the UFC so the comparison stands! Both guys have 1 win. In fact, Justin Isn’t that much different than CM Punk... Ok...I don't think you believe that but, whatever...lol.
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Post by slaytan on Apr 16, 2018 19:04:25 GMT -5
Yeah maybe you’re right about comparing Justin to Tank... Tank had 2 wins in the UFC, so it’s not fair to give Justin that much respect. But Lenord Garcia only had 1 win in the UFC so the comparison stands! Both guys have 1 win. In fact, Justin Isn’t that much different than CM Punk... The tank reference holds water. Everyone from the old days “sucks” compared to modern fighters. Don Frye, Coleman, Royce Gracie, Severn, even Frank Shamrock also “suck.” If Gaychee leaves UFC without getting more than 2 wins, he’s basically tank 2018. A lot of people loved tank, like Gayche. Tank made exciting fights (for the era), and lost. A true “Tank” today would be impossible. Tank’s training consisted of booze, bluster, and bench presses
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Post by ocmmafan on Apr 16, 2018 19:15:21 GMT -5
All the great skills?! The most important skill is DEFENSE! He has none. ? Are Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, Donald Cerrone and Robbie Lawler all overrated to you? Eddie Alvarez? Michael Chandler? Some guys don't fight defensively but they have plenty of skill. Dude, you STARTED a thread calling a guy overrated coming off a win. No one even said he was great so you built yourself a strawman and then argued it, lol. You don't like brawlers - understood. Celebrate the technical skill of watching a Fitch bore the fuck out of people with his defensive blanket. Or Woodley circle and counter with a few takedowns landing 30 significant strikes and winning a fight. To each their own. I'll watch Gaethje headline cards and lose brain cells.
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Post by slaytan on Apr 17, 2018 6:09:24 GMT -5
Just to be clear, Gatche is badass and I’m a fan
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 17, 2018 10:19:37 GMT -5
All the great skills?! The most important skill is DEFENSE! He has none. ? Are Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, Donald Cerrone and Robbie Lawler all overrated to you? Eddie Alvarez? Michael Chandler? Some guys don't fight defensively but they have plenty of skill. Dude, you STARTED a thread calling a guy overrated coming off a win. No one even said he was great so you built yourself a strawman and then argued it, lol. You don't like brawlers - understood. Celebrate the technical skill of watching a Fitch bore the fuck out of people with his defensive blanket. Or Woodley circle and counter with a few takedowns landing 30 significant strikes and winning a fight. To each their own. I'll watch Gaethje headline cards and lose brain cells. Are you serioulsy comparing Diaz bros, Cowboy, Robbie, and Eddie Alveraz to Justin Gaethje? lol... All of them would pick him apart and have many defensive skills. I get it, you love brawlers... no one ever said this was a sport exclusive to high intellect fans. I remember all the Kimbo slice threads you used to start on the old board... you were one of his first big supporters. I respect your loyalty. RIP Kimbo.
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Post by TheStorm on Apr 17, 2018 10:54:09 GMT -5
? Are Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, Donald Cerrone and Robbie Lawler all overrated to you? Eddie Alvarez? Michael Chandler? Some guys don't fight defensively but they have plenty of skill. Dude, you STARTED a thread calling a guy overrated coming off a win. No one even said he was great so you built yourself a strawman and then argued it, lol. You don't like brawlers - understood. Celebrate the technical skill of watching a Fitch bore the fuck out of people with his defensive blanket. Or Woodley circle and counter with a few takedowns landing 30 significant strikes and winning a fight. To each their own. I'll watch Gaethje headline cards and lose brain cells. Are you serioulsy comparing Diaz bros, Cowboy, Robbie, and Eddie Alveraz to Justin Gaethje? lol... All of them would pick him apart and have many defensive skills. I get it, you love brawlers... no one ever said this was a sport exclusive to high intellect fans. I remember all the Kimbo slice threads you used to start on the old board... you were one of his first big supporters. I respect your loyalty. RIP Kimbo. It’s much more realistic to group him with the Diaz bros, lawler, etc.. than with tank and Leonard. Would most of them beat him? Possibly, but he would also likely give them a hell of a fight, like he just did with Alvarez and Porier. He may be 1-2 in the UFC, but he just fought two of the best and gave them all they could handle.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 17, 2018 11:29:25 GMT -5
Are you serioulsy comparing Diaz bros, Cowboy, Robbie, and Eddie Alveraz to Justin Gaethje? lol... All of them would pick him apart and have many defensive skills. I get it, you love brawlers... no one ever said this was a sport exclusive to high intellect fans. I remember all the Kimbo slice threads you used to start on the old board... you were one of his first big supporters. I respect your loyalty. RIP Kimbo. It’s much more realistic to group him with the Diaz bros, lawler, etc.. than with tank and Leonard. Would most of them beat him? Possibly, but he would also likely give them a hell of a fight, like he just did with Alvarez and Porier. He may be 1-2 in the UFC, but he just fought two of the best and gave them all they could handle. We can talk about grouping him in with those guys when he has a record to justify it. Until then he has one win in the UFC against Michael Johnson. Big deal.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 17, 2018 11:31:45 GMT -5
Remeber when Storm was on the Houston Alexander bandwagon? Remember that thread he started on the old board titled "Houston Alexander is FOR REAL!" lol - those were the days...
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Post by ocmmafan on Apr 17, 2018 11:57:03 GMT -5
? Are Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, Donald Cerrone and Robbie Lawler all overrated to you? Eddie Alvarez? Michael Chandler? Some guys don't fight defensively but they have plenty of skill. Dude, you STARTED a thread calling a guy overrated coming off a win. No one even said he was great so you built yourself a strawman and then argued it, lol. You don't like brawlers - understood. Celebrate the technical skill of watching a Fitch bore the fuck out of people with his defensive blanket. Or Woodley circle and counter with a few takedowns landing 30 significant strikes and winning a fight. To each their own. I'll watch Gaethje headline cards and lose brain cells. Are you serioulsy comparing Diaz bros, Cowboy, Robbie, and Eddie Alveraz to Justin Gaethje? lol... All of them would pick him apart and have many defensive skills. I get it, you love brawlers... no one ever said this was a sport exclusive to high intellect fans. I remember all the Kimbo slice threads you used to start on the old board... you were one of his first big supporters. I respect your loyalty. RIP Kimbo. I have never made a Kimbo Slice thread in my life. And yeah, I am comparing him to Eddie Alvarez given they fought a war that was razor close and Eddie happened to stop him. I'm comparing him to other fighters that take a tremendous amount of punishment in order to inflict their style of fighting. That's every guy I listed. That's the difference between a casual observer and a real MMA fan. He lost to Eddie in a war and that makes him Leonard Garcia? You have gone overboard in claiming Gaethje isn't any good. Have you seen Cerrone lose to Nate Diaz? He could have won that fight by simply backing off and continuing to land leg kicks. But he didn't because that's NOT how Cerrone fights - he brawls if someone is willing to engage. It cost him but it was a helluva fight. Have you seen Eddie Alvarez fight his entire career? Have you seen his fights with Chandler? Learn something and watch them. If Gaethje is Leonard Garcia what does that make Michael Johnson? The same Michael Johnson that KNOCKED OUT Poirier who just beat Gaethje.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 17, 2018 11:59:45 GMT -5
You're wrong about all those guys.
And it's cool... I'd be embarrassed about the old Kimbo threads too. "Kimbo vs Brock - who would win!?" lulz...
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Post by ocmmafan on Apr 17, 2018 12:14:23 GMT -5
You're wrong about all those guys. And it's cool... I'd be embarrassed about the old Kimbo threads too. "Kimbo vs Brock - who would win!?" lulz... I'm not wrong about any of them but you don't watch enough fights to understand what they are doing. Robbie Lawler is a good defensive fighter? The Diaz brothers? Cerrone, Alvarez? Stick to it, boy. YOU are the person that makes hypothetical threads. I would never even enter one of your fantasy fight type threads that WOULD be something like Kimbo vs Brock, but nice try. The people that actually talk MMA don't talk about Kimbo Slice. That's only someone like you.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 17, 2018 12:17:32 GMT -5
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Post by TheStorm on Apr 17, 2018 14:23:36 GMT -5
It’s much more realistic to group him with the Diaz bros, lawler, etc.. than with tank and Leonard. Would most of them beat him? Possibly, but he would also likely give them a hell of a fight, like he just did with Alvarez and Porier. He may be 1-2 in the UFC, but he just fought two of the best and gave them all they could handle. We can talk about grouping him in with those guys when he has a record to justify it. Until then he has one win in the UFC against Michael Johnson. Big deal. You can’t only judge someone’s skill and style simply by the win-loss record, though.. who they face, and how they fared against them is a huge indicator as to how good of a fighter someone is though. He doesn’t just survive against these guys he has all out wars and almost finishes them as well. Very competitive fights. Leonard garcia wasn’t even in very many competitive fights. He just threw with high volume, hardly ever landing which seems interesting to a casual fan, but is a failure when analyzed by an intelligent fan.
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Post by adamg01 on Apr 18, 2018 8:13:54 GMT -5
I think Justin will be another Nate Diaz. Exciting Fox headline material but probably can’t beat the top3 in the division and will never hold that belt.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 18, 2018 9:08:54 GMT -5
I think Justin will be another Nate Diaz. Exciting Fox headline material but probably can’t beat the top3 in the division and will never hold that belt. What if Justin vs Nate? Nate would pick him apart with stockton slaps.
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Post by adamg01 on Apr 18, 2018 15:49:31 GMT -5
I think Justin will be another Nate Diaz. Exciting Fox headline material but probably can’t beat the top3 in the division and will never hold that belt. What if Justin vs Nate? Nate would pick him apart with stockton slaps. Yes, that’s a horrible style mismatch for Justin. It would probably be worse than the time he made Michael Johnson look like an amateur. Unless Justin becomes a beast wrestler overnight, Nate peppers him at will.
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Post by daywork on Apr 18, 2018 16:57:24 GMT -5
What if Justin vs Nate? Nate would pick him apart with stockton slaps. Yes, that’s a horrible style mismatch for Justin. It would probably be worse than the time he made Michael Johnson look like an amateur. Unless Justin becomes a beast wrestler overnight, Nate peppers him at will. As I remember Michael Johnson was whooping Nates ass until he gassed. Just like MJ was whooping Justin's ass until he gassed. Nate vs Justin would be a fun fight to watch. I think its a toss up on who wins.
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Post by adamg01 on Apr 18, 2018 17:04:55 GMT -5
Yes, that’s a horrible style mismatch for Justin. It would probably be worse than the time he made Michael Johnson look like an amateur. Unless Justin becomes a beast wrestler overnight, Nate peppers him at will. As I remember Michael Johnson was whooping Nates ass until he gassed. Just like MJ was whooping Justin's ass until he gassed. Nate vs Justin would be a fun fight to watch. I think its a toss up on who wins. I’d have to watch it again. I don’t remember Nate being in any real trouble and displaying superior boxing. Even toying with him like he tends to do when he is in control of a fight. I think Justin would get subbed.
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Post by ocmmafan on Apr 18, 2018 17:11:12 GMT -5
Justin's leg kicks would do a LOT of damage to Nate but it would be like the Cerrone fight where Nate's volume AND ability to take all of Justin's shots would lead to Justin eventually getting stopped. Justin CAN wrestle but he clearly doesn't care about strategy and just wants to brawl until someone gets finished.
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Post by johncfc on Apr 18, 2018 17:33:11 GMT -5
Overrated or not, do you think Justin could have won UFC 1?
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Apr 19, 2018 8:52:24 GMT -5
Overrated or not, do you think Justin could have won UFC 1? Won the whole tournament? No. Done well? yes.
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Post by MMAJim on Apr 19, 2018 13:18:10 GMT -5
Nate vs JG = cringeworthy leg kicks received on Nate's lead leg
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Post by Premier on Apr 19, 2018 20:24:44 GMT -5
Overrated or not, do you think Justin could have won UFC 1? But how would he had done against Tony?
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Post by peAk on Apr 19, 2018 21:55:13 GMT -5
Holy Shit
You learn something everyday. I had no idea Leonard Garcia had only one win in the UFC, and a split at that!
Crazy.
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