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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 11:54:51 GMT -5
Why is everyone jumping on this dude's nuts? Sure he had an incredible debut in the UFC and was very exciting to watch, but the MMA media is already talking about a title shot for this guy. WTF?
Justin Gaethje seems to be nothing more than a brawler who moves forward and is willing to eat as many shots as it takes to land one. And while that technique may have worked really well for Chuck Liddell, Leonard Garcia, and Wanderlei Silva... this sport has evolved quite a bit since the era of those guys and it takes a lot more to be successful in the UFC.
The guy almost got KOd 3 times by Michael Johnson. Imagine what would happen if he fights any technical striker with power - He is going to get picked apart and exposed! And have we seen what his ground game is like?
I get it... he's exciting to watch and he throws down, but c'mon with this bullshit about giving him Tony or Conor next.
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Post by MMAJim on Jul 10, 2017 12:05:22 GMT -5
I'm not disagreeing with you, but he does at least have a pretty good previous track record. Guys that fight like him tend to burnout quickly at some point. Michael Johnson made a mistake going in to take him down the first time he had him on the ropes. He was 1-2 strikes away from the fight getting stopped. I don't believe you can get and keep the title for long if you're taking that much damage regularly. That being said, apparently you don't even have to defend your belt at 145 and 155 now so maybe if he gets one he could keep it a while. He should have to get at least one more win before he gets one of the top dogs.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 12:14:46 GMT -5
I'm not disagreeing with you, but he does at least have a pretty good previous track record. Guys that fight like him tend to burnout quickly at some point. Michael Johnson made a mistake going in to take him down the first time he had him on the ropes. He was 1-2 strikes away from the fight getting stopped. I don't believe you can get and keep the title for long if you're taking that much damage regularly. That being said, apparently you don't even have to defend your belt at 145 and 155 now so maybe if he gets one he could keep it a while. He should have to get at least one more win before he gets one of the top dogs. A pretty good track record? Against who... a bunch of WSOF no-names? People are acting as if he completely walked though Johnson and then immediately did a back flip off the cage in victory. That's not the case... Justin Gaethje was close to being KOd several times and fucking fell off the cage while climbing up to attempt the back flip because he was still on queer street.
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Post by ocmmafan on Jul 10, 2017 12:31:50 GMT -5
I think most astute fans know exactly what Gaejthe is and his fight against Johnson showed us exactly that. He's a balls to the wall brawler. But so is Michael Chandler and like Chandler, Gaejthe is eventually going to get caught. He is very capable of winning fights against pretty much anyone, but his defense is lacking so he will be KOd sooner than later. Guys like Barboza and Eddie Alvarez are out there and it could be a repeat of the Johnson fight and someone will get finished. if he wins another fight he is knocking on the door of a title shot. He's exciting and exciting makes a difference.
The big thing you are missing in calling him overrated is that he STOPPED Michael Johnson with strikes. No one else has been able to do that and Johnson is a fucking stud, so at least give Gaejthe credit for doing it.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 12:38:56 GMT -5
I think most astute fans know exactly what Gaejthe is and his fight against Johnson showed us exactly that. He's a balls to the wall brawler. But so is Michael Chandler and like Chandler, Gaejthe is eventually going to get caught. He is very capable of winning fights against pretty much anyone, but his defense is lacking so he will be KOd sooner than later. Guys like Barboza and Eddie Alvarez are out there and it could be a repeat of the Johnson fight and someone will get finished. if he wins another fight he is knocking on the door of a title shot. He's exciting and exciting makes a difference. The big thing you are missing in calling him overrated is that he STOPPED Michael Johnson with strikes. No one else has been able to do that and Johnson is a fucking stud, so at least give Gaejthe credit for doing it. The only reason he stopped Johnson is because he threw caution to the wind. So i'll give him credit for being reckless and ending up with no chin by 2018 and having Alzheimer's by 2020.
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Post by ocmmafan on Jul 10, 2017 12:42:37 GMT -5
The "only" reason? Dude, Nate Diaz hit MJ with about 100 shots and couldn't really hurt him. He has power for a 155er.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 12:45:49 GMT -5
The "only" reason? Dude, Nate Diaz hit MJ with about 100 shots and couldn't really hurt him. He has power for a 155er. Nate "The Stockton Slapper" Diaz? Hard to KO someone with bitch slaps...
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Post by ocmmafan on Jul 10, 2017 12:50:22 GMT -5
Ok. An undefeated fighter comes to the UFC and KOs a top 10 guy that has never been KOd and you want to focus on him being overrated. Got it.
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Post by peAk on Jul 10, 2017 12:53:45 GMT -5
I can't disagree
I understand where OC is coming from though. He really destroyed MJ and a lot of other fighters didn't and for that he deserves some credit. Especially with all the hype and it being his debut hanging on his shoulders.
That said, I think he gets knocked out sooner RATHER than later. It's one thing to have a strong chin, it's completely another thing to get put on queer street every time you fight. I don't think he has a good chin, I think he just recovers well.
Regardless if you like him or not, that fight was fun as fuck!!!
The fight was exciting
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 12:54:39 GMT -5
Ok. An undefeated fighter comes to the UFC and KOs a top 10 guy that has never been KOd and you want to focus on him being overrated. Got it. If people say he deserves a title shot after that performance with Johnson, then YES - he's overrated.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 12:59:40 GMT -5
I can't disagree I understand where OC is coming from though. He really destroyed MJ and a lot of other fighters didn't and for that he deserves some credit. Especially with all the hype and it being his debut hanging on his shoulders. That said, I think he gets knocked out sooner RATHER than later. It's one thing to have a strong chin, it's completely another thing to get put on queer street every time you fight. I don't think he has a good chin, I think he just recovers well. Regardless if you like him or not, that fight was fun as fuck!!! The fight was exciting It was definitely a fun fight and i was just as excited as everyone else. All im saying is that style of fighting doesn't get you to the top these days, so for people to start throwing Justin's name in there with Tony and Conor is retarded. Sage Northcutt has more technique than Justin Gaethje!
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Post by peAk on Jul 10, 2017 13:03:50 GMT -5
I can't disagree I understand where OC is coming from though. He really destroyed MJ and a lot of other fighters didn't and for that he deserves some credit. Especially with all the hype and it being his debut hanging on his shoulders. That said, I think he gets knocked out sooner RATHER than later. It's one thing to have a strong chin, it's completely another thing to get put on queer street every time you fight. I don't think he has a good chin, I think he just recovers well. Regardless if you like him or not, that fight was fun as fuck!!! The fight was exciting It was definitely a fun fight and i was just as excited as everyone else. All im saying is that style of fighting doesn't get you to the top these days, so for people to start throwing Justin's name in there with Tony and Conor is retarded. Sage Northcutt has more technique than Justin Gaethje! Was MJ #5 in the ranking? If so, I guess that puts Justin in there right behind Kebab, Tony......and Nate? Id like to hope that he would have to get another win against a top 5 guy before they think about a title shot.
Pettis vs Gaethje makes sense to me
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 10, 2017 13:09:44 GMT -5
Justin is now ranked at #6 with Nate #5 and Eddie #4. Pettis is ranked #9...
I doubt Nate fights anytime soon and he sure as hell would never fight Justin, so I think a fight with Eddie Alverez makes sense for Justin.
Fights with Barboza and Pettis would also be great match-ups. I think Justin loses to both of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 13:30:34 GMT -5
I really didn't think he was going to win this fight. I'm stoked for the guy, but I feel ranking him no 6 is a bit of a jump.
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Post by ocmmafan on Jul 10, 2017 13:38:04 GMT -5
I think him and Eddie is a good fight and favor Eddie about 65/35. Eddie's chin is battle tested.
Barboza is the world biggest enigma. He has a flea sized brain so anyone can beat him. If he wanted to use movement and leg kick the shit out of Gaethje I think Barboza stops him in 2 rounds, but Barboza can't be relied on to fight smart.
Pettis vs Gaethje is a great fight and I would have to take Pettis, but not with great confidence. Gaethje IS a wrestler and could pull what Eddie did and beat Pettis with takedowns.
There is nowhere to go but up after be beat Johnson. I have always known Gaethje is walking the line between winning and getting KOd but maybe he wins a few in a row and gets a title shot? It won't shock me.
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Post by Premier on Jul 10, 2017 14:37:21 GMT -5
Ok. An undefeated fighter comes to the UFC and KOs a top 10 guy that has never been KOd and you want to focus on him being overrated. Got it. That's what I was thinking. I'll admit, I had no clue who Justin was, but if anything, he impressed the heck out of me with that fight. Furthest thing from my mind was this kid is overrated.
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Post by daywork on Jul 10, 2017 20:45:38 GMT -5
I had no idea who this guy was. I started to feel bad for him during the fight, cause he seemed to have no defense at all. Johnson was able to hit him with whatever he wanted to hit him with LOL.
But Justin has a good chin and a lot of heart. MJ's gas tank helped Justin out a lot.
I don't think this kid will win a title, But he will be a blast to watch fight.
Oh, and Dana did say that Justin "could" get a title shot soon.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jul 10, 2017 21:53:56 GMT -5
i bet they give him barboza next. the fight looks great on paper. each play into the other's strengths. barboza loves when guys chase him and gathje loves to stalk guys. barboza 3 fight win streak, knocking on the door of a title shot. i've always thought barboza's chin was very similar to gathje's has proven to be. if you can touch it, he staggers easy, but recovers quickly.
155 is a mess right now. khabib screwed the division. imo, fuck that guy. ferguson should get the shot after conor recovers from boxing match. barboza/lee for next in line shot and let khabib and gathje fight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 20:50:48 GMT -5
Dude, he's only overrated by those saying he deserves a title shot because he has only beaten one guy in the UFC.
But if you say he is overrated for any other reason (or maybe ranking him 6, as I'm not sure he deserves that spot just yet) I really can't understand or agree with you.
He is the first person to EVER finish Michael Johnson with strikes and Johnson was ranked #8 and saying "the only reason he beat him is cause he threw caution to the wind" makes ZERO sense.
I mean throwing caution to the wind against a striker as good as Johnson will get most people knocked out so the fact he did it and won, even despite ALMOST being knocked out, is proof he's BETTER than those who can't do that and beat Johnson, not worse.
He beat him cause he's a SICK striker with an amazing chin and great heart.
Sure, he has sloppy defense, and sooner or later will probably get KO'd, but it hasn't happened yet.
So yeah, if people say he deserves a title shot after beating one guy they are being crazy and overrating him.
But you are UNDER rating him to say the only reason he beat Johnson is that he threw caution to the wind.
Basically, the fair assessment of him is that he's an extremely tough striker with a good chin but who also has sloppy defense and that he's undefeated but we still don't actually know how good he is in comparison to the competition in the UFC at LW because he's only fought one guy.
It will take a few more fights before we can know how good he really is, but to act like he sucks and doesn't deserve praise for that win or that being the first to stop Johnson with strikes isn't worthy of any praise is just not fair and wrong IMO.
You are acting like doing that wasn't impressive and taking all his credit away and seem to be saying you don't think he'll be able to do well at LW, when in reality we just don't know how well he'll do, but he's dangerous for just about anyone on the feet and could potentially knock anyone out if they make a mistake and can clearly take a lot of punishment and still come back to win.
Lots of other fighters, even in the UFC, would have been stopped by those shots Johnson landed.
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Post by adamg01 on Jul 14, 2017 9:16:24 GMT -5
I'm sure Nate won't fight but he would embarrass Justin with superior reach and striking.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 14, 2017 10:30:06 GMT -5
Dude, he's only overrated by those saying he deserves a title shot because he has only beaten one guy in the UFC. But if you say he is overrated for any other reason (or maybe ranking him 6, as I'm not sure he deserves that spot just yet) I really can't understand or agree with you. He is the first person to EVER finish Michael Johnson with strikes and Johnson was ranked #8 and saying "the only reason he beat him is cause he threw caution to the wind" makes ZERO sense. I mean throwing caution to the wind against a striker as good as Johnson will get most people knocked out so the fact he did it and won, even despite ALMOST being knocked out, is proof he's BETTER than those who can't do that and beat Johnson, not worse. He beat him cause he's a SICK striker with an amazing chin and great heart. Sure, he has sloppy defense, and sooner or later will probably get KO'd, but it hasn't happened yet. So yeah, if people say he deserves a title shot after beating one guy they are being crazy and overrating him. But you are UNDER rating him to say the only reason he beat Johnson is that he threw caution to the wind. Basically, the fair assessment of him is that he's an extremely tough striker with a good chin but who also has sloppy defense and that he's undefeated but we still don't actually know how good he is in comparison to the competition in the UFC at LW because he's only fought one guy. It will take a few more fights before we can know how good he really is, but to act like he sucks and doesn't deserve praise for that win or that being the first to stop Johnson with strikes isn't worthy of any praise is just not fair and wrong IMO. You are acting like doing that wasn't impressive and taking all his credit away and seem to be saying you don't think he'll be able to do well at LW, when in reality we just don't know how well he'll do, but he's dangerous for just about anyone on the feet and could potentially knock anyone out if they make a mistake and can clearly take a lot of punishment and still come back to win. Lots of other fighters, even in the UFC, would have been stopped by those shots Johnson landed. Being tough with a good chin is only half of what it takes to be the best. Justin's striking is not that impressive, it's just exciting to watch. This guy is no different than Leonard Garcia.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 22:16:37 GMT -5
Dude, he's only overrated by those saying he deserves a title shot because he has only beaten one guy in the UFC. But if you say he is overrated for any other reason (or maybe ranking him 6, as I'm not sure he deserves that spot just yet) I really can't understand or agree with you. He is the first person to EVER finish Michael Johnson with strikes and Johnson was ranked #8 and saying "the only reason he beat him is cause he threw caution to the wind" makes ZERO sense. I mean throwing caution to the wind against a striker as good as Johnson will get most people knocked out so the fact he did it and won, even despite ALMOST being knocked out, is proof he's BETTER than those who can't do that and beat Johnson, not worse. He beat him cause he's a SICK striker with an amazing chin and great heart. Sure, he has sloppy defense, and sooner or later will probably get KO'd, but it hasn't happened yet. So yeah, if people say he deserves a title shot after beating one guy they are being crazy and overrating him. But you are UNDER rating him to say the only reason he beat Johnson is that he threw caution to the wind. Basically, the fair assessment of him is that he's an extremely tough striker with a good chin but who also has sloppy defense and that he's undefeated but we still don't actually know how good he is in comparison to the competition in the UFC at LW because he's only fought one guy. It will take a few more fights before we can know how good he really is, but to act like he sucks and doesn't deserve praise for that win or that being the first to stop Johnson with strikes isn't worthy of any praise is just not fair and wrong IMO. You are acting like doing that wasn't impressive and taking all his credit away and seem to be saying you don't think he'll be able to do well at LW, when in reality we just don't know how well he'll do, but he's dangerous for just about anyone on the feet and could potentially knock anyone out if they make a mistake and can clearly take a lot of punishment and still come back to win. Lots of other fighters, even in the UFC, would have been stopped by those shots Johnson landed. Being tough with a good chin is only half of what it takes to be the best. Justin's striking is not that impressive, it's just exciting to watch. This guy is no different than Leonard Garcia. EXCEPT that he hasn't lost yet and Garcia has lost several times I'm pretty sure. Just like the people who are saying he deserves a title shot (and who on this site said that??) are overrating him, you are underrating him by already saying that he's not that good and going to lose and no different than someone who's already lost when he's still undefeated and has only had one fight in the UFC. Don't you see how what you are doing is just the flip side to the coin?? You have NO WAY of knowing how good or bad he is yet dude! All we know is he's undefeated and was the first person to ever stop Johnson with strikes which is impressive. You can make predications or guesses as to how well he'll do or who you think will beat him, but they are still just guesses. So you are basically the pot calling the kettle black: blaming people who are making predications that he's going to do well when you are making predications he won't do well, when both are just guesses and no one knows yet how good he is. How is that not plain for you to see?? Give him a few fights before you bash him, at least then maybe you'll have more fuel but right now you don't have much.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 17, 2017 12:45:02 GMT -5
Being tough with a good chin is only half of what it takes to be the best. Justin's striking is not that impressive, it's just exciting to watch. This guy is no different than Leonard Garcia. EXCEPT that he hasn't lost yet and Garcia has lost several times I'm pretty sure. He's 1/0 in the UFC and he barely got that win.Just like the people who are saying he deserves a title shot (and who on this site said that??) are overrating him, you are underrating him by already saying that he's not that good and going to lose and no different than someone who's already lost when he's still undefeated and has only had one fight in the UFC. Have you looked at the guys he fought in WSOF? The talent pool is pretty thin over there, so the fact he's undefeated isnt very impressive.Don't you see how what you are doing is just the flip side to the coin?? No.You have NO WAY of knowing how good or bad he is yet dude! Sure i do. I watched the fight and saw him constantly eat shots and almost get KOd a few times. I watched him fall off the cage twice trying to climb it after his win. His defense is non-existent. All we know is he's undefeated and was the first person to ever stop Johnson with strikes which is impressive. Again, his WSOF record isnt impressive and he barely beat Johnson and almost lost several times.You can make predications or guesses as to how well he'll do or who you think will beat him, but they are still just guesses. They're educated opinions based on the technique he displayed in the fight. Pretty sure that's still allowed on this forum.So you are basically the pot calling the kettle black: blaming people who are making predications that he's going to do well when you are making predications he won't do well, when both are just guesses and no one knows yet how good he is. Again- I thought that's why we come on this forum... to discuss/debate MMA and give opinions? How is that not plain for you to see?? Why are you so fired up over my criticism of Justin Gaethje? Give him a few fights before you bash him, at least then maybe you'll have more fuel but right now you don't have much. The purpose of the thread was to bash those in the MMA media who think he deserves a title shot after his UFC debut and give my reasoning as a counter to their opinion.
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Post by ocmmafan on Jul 17, 2017 14:05:33 GMT -5
Justin gets to fight Eddie Alvarez (barring injury) so he comes into the UFC and gets two top guys right off the bat. If he beats Eddie, especially if he finishes Eddie, then does anyone believe he does NOT deserve a title shot? He may be stuck in the holding queue because of Conor, Tony, Khabib and where they are all at in order, but a win over Eddie puts Justin on that same list.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 15:32:16 GMT -5
Did Justin train with Miller and Glover or something? Because Ol Toehold is treating this one like someone he knows knows the guy.
And God forbid you show any criticism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 21:08:56 GMT -5
Did Justin train with Miller and Glover or something? Because Ol Toehold is treating this one like someone he knows knows the guy. And God forbid you show any criticism. No, there's zero connection and I don't think I know anyone who's met the guy. I like to debate when I see an argument I don't think has much merit. I don't love or hate Gaethje, but he has had one fight in the UFC only, and despite how close he came to getting knocked out, he not only didn't, but was the first to finish one of the toughest strikers (finish with strikes that is...) in the 155lbs division. In as a tough a division as LHW in the UFC "almost" doesn't count. There may also have been some guys who "almost" stopped Johnson but didn't, but Gaethje DID. Jonas has a leg to stand on to criticize those saying he deserves a title shot, but no leg to stand on saying that it's not impressive being the first stop a guy like Johnson with strikes, and I feel he's rushing to judgement on saying anything other than that Gaethje doesn't deserve a title shot, which he doesn't. He said "the only reason he stopped Johnson was he threw caution to the wind" and that just positively takes away any and all credit the guy deserves for finishing such a tough guy. 9 out of 10 guys throwing caution to the wind would get stopped by Johnson, so I saw that as a ridiculous statement. God forbid I show any criticism on anyone else's criticism. If I see a flaw in someone's fighter bashing I just might point it out, and I see in Gaethje a fighter with many flaws but who has a big upside and will make for exciting fights, not someone who is really deserving of a whole lot of criticism after beating Johnson in one of the most exciting MMA brawls I've ever seen in my life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2017 21:17:03 GMT -5
See my response to Vale... Most of what you are saying here makes sense, but not when you say "the only reason he stopped Johnson was throwing caution to the wind". I haven't heard anyone on this forum say he deserves a title shot, but you can't just be the first fighter ever to stop Johnson with strikes without some pretty strong combination of power, skill, heart and chin. You take all that credit away from him. He could end up doing very well at LHW is all I'm saying, and I think you are jumping the gun on taking away all his credit and saying nothing he did in that fight is worthy of any praise at all, which just isn't fair. That was such an exiting fight to watch, so I don't see what you have to complain about.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Jul 21, 2017 10:25:33 GMT -5
See my response to Vale... Most of what you are saying here makes sense, but not when you say "the only reason he stopped Johnson was throwing caution to the wind". I haven't heard anyone on this forum say he deserves a title shot, but you can't just be the first fighter ever to stop Johnson with strikes without some pretty strong combination of power, skill, heart and chin. You take all that credit away from him. He could end up doing very well at LHW is all I'm saying, and I think you are jumping the gun on taking away all his credit and saying nothing he did in that fight is worthy of any praise at all, which just isn't fair. That was such an exiting fight to watch, so I don't see what you have to complain about. Show me where I complained about the fight. In fact, if you read this thread you will see i have commented on how exciting the fight was multiple times. I have made it VERY clear my complaints are directed to the "MMA MEDIA" for thinking this guy should fight Conor. Those are facts ^ My only debatable opinion is that Justin's win/finish over Michael Johnson was not impressive due to his lack of defense. "Brawling" is NOT an impressive "skill", and with today's talent, it will only get you so far in the UFC - certainly not to the top. I could see Justin possibly beating Eddie, but that's as far as he gets.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 21:50:06 GMT -5
See my response to Vale... Most of what you are saying here makes sense, but not when you say "the only reason he stopped Johnson was throwing caution to the wind". I haven't heard anyone on this forum say he deserves a title shot, but you can't just be the first fighter ever to stop Johnson with strikes without some pretty strong combination of power, skill, heart and chin. You take all that credit away from him. He could end up doing very well at LHW is all I'm saying, and I think you are jumping the gun on taking away all his credit and saying nothing he did in that fight is worthy of any praise at all, which just isn't fair. That was such an exiting fight to watch, so I don't see what you have to complain about. Show me where I complained about the fight. In fact, if you read this thread you will see i have commented on how exciting the fight was multiple times. I have made it VERY clear my complaints are directed to the "MMA MEDIA" for thinking this guy should fight Conor. Those are facts ^ My only debatable opinion is that Justin's win/finish over Michael Johnson was not impressive due to his lack of defense. "Brawling" is NOT an impressive "skill", and with today's talent, it will only get you so far in the UFC - certainly not to the top. I could see Justin possibly beating Eddie, but that's as far as he gets. No, the highly debatable comment you made was that Gaethje only finished Johnson, someone who had NEVER been finished by strikes before, because he "threw caution to the wind". Gaethje's skills go beyond "brawling" or he wouldn't have finished Johnson. He mixed up his strikes to the head, body and leg kicks, knees, elbows, techniques that actually Johnson uses less than Gaethje does (I mean Johnson hardly ever throws a leg kick), and he has wrestling skills as well. Had he not been smart enough to go to the legs and body he probably wouldn't have gotten the KO. He has striking skills and it's pretty much undeniable. I don't know how far he'll make it, but you took every ounce of credit away from the guy in his win for that fight. You basically were saying that just about anyone could have finished Johnson if they just didn't give a shit about whether or not they got knocked out and swung wild for the fences and that it just happened to be that Gaethje was the first to do it, and don't pretend that's not what you meant. You meant to say that Gaethje deserves absolutely ZERO credit in that win, that he's not better than Johnson (which that fight seemed to suggest that at least on that particular night he WAS), that the win wasn't anything worth being the least bit impressed over, and that Gaethje is nothing more than a street brawler, and saying those things is just not fair to him. It's one thing to make predictions that the guy won't make it far, question his comp. in WSOF, question his defense and his ALMOST getting knocked out, point to people (NONE of whom I saw on this particular site by the way) who think he can win the title etc...it's another ENTIRELY to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say the guy SUCKS. I never saw you mention the MMA Media, but if that's who you meant than you may have a leg to stand on but you are basically saying he is nothing more than the Tank Abbott of the LW division, and I'm sorry, but I think you are going a bit far there.
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Post by peAk on Jul 21, 2017 22:05:19 GMT -5
Can't we all just get along?
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