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Post by jamesod on Oct 21, 2020 7:55:51 GMT -5
Ok, john, who do you have on Saturday?
Khabib v. Justin Robert Whittaker v. Cannonier Volkov v. Walt Harris
I think in all instances the choices are quite obvious. But maybe I don't have the trained eye of an expert.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 21, 2020 11:10:39 GMT -5
Ok, john, who do you have on Saturday? Khabib v. Justin Robert Whittaker v. Cannonier Volkov v. Walt Harris I think in all instances the choices are quite obvious. But maybe I don't have the trained eye of an expert. Alright, the expert aka the Daywork of fight picking will share my selections. I’m taking Khabib by maul. A lot of people are picking Gaethje, but I’m giving him a zero chance. I don’t think anyone can beat Khabib at 155, and that includes GSP. At 170 would be a different matter. Here’s the pick you likely will disagree with. I’m taking Cannonier to shock the world and beat Whittaker. I think the years have caught up to Robert and I thought he looked slow against Till. Put your hard earned money on Cannonier. I’m taking Volkov over Harris, but this is the least confident I am and likely won’t bet on it. Who ya got?
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 21, 2020 13:45:46 GMT -5
Ok, john, who do you have on Saturday? Khabib v. Justin Robert Whittaker v. Cannonier Volkov v. Walt Harris I think in all instances the choices are quite obvious. But maybe I don't have the trained eye of an expert. While I'm neither John or an expert, I'd say I'd lie somewhere in between, lean more toward the expert though... I'm going Justin with the upset! I think he clips him and jumps in for the finish. I'm a huge fan of Bobby Knuckles so I can't pick against him... Odds are very close for this one, way to close... I think Harris can win as well... Volkov will play the distance game but I think Harris can take him down and pound him out. Ever since he couldn't take out Hardy, I vowed to never pick him again... Another good dog I like is Nathaniel Wood PS I miss Daywork...
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Post by johncfc on Oct 21, 2020 15:05:25 GMT -5
Ok, john, who do you have on Saturday? Khabib v. Justin Robert Whittaker v. Cannonier Volkov v. Walt Harris I think in all instances the choices are quite obvious. But maybe I don't have the trained eye of an expert. While I'm neither John or an expert, I'd say I'd lie somewhere in between, lean more toward the expert though... I'm going Justin with the upset! I think he clips him and jumps in for the finish. I'm a huge fan of Bobby Knuckles so I can't pick against him... Odds are very close for this one, way to close... I think Harris can win as well... Volkov will play the distance game but I think Harris can take him down and pound him out. Ever since he couldn't take out Hardy, I vowed to never pick him again... Another good dog I like is Nathaniel Wood PS I miss Daywork... So you are going against all of my picks! Are you insane? Actually, it’s not a bad method! The majority of people seem to be picking Gaethje, which I think is insane. I picked Gaethje to upset Tony, but I don’t see how he stops Khabib’s takedowns. Gaethje is always moving forward, which is great and all, but kind of plays into Khabib’s style. Don’t sleep on Jojua in the women’s flyweight either!
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Post by johncfc on Oct 24, 2020 10:20:41 GMT -5
Jojua is up next gentlemen. Don’t blink!
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Post by johncfc on Oct 24, 2020 10:50:26 GMT -5
Jojua is up next gentlemen. Don’t blink! Damn, I just lost a small fortune betting on Jojua! My knowledge of the Georgian MMA scene isn’t what I thought it was!
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Post by jamesod on Oct 24, 2020 11:32:41 GMT -5
Gaethe is a +280 underdog. That seems really high to me. Gaethe is a much better version of Al Iaquinta and Khabib didn't steamroll Al. Gaethe seems tailor made to beat Khabib, with his power, stamina, and excellent defensive wrestling. Plus, Gaethe showed he can fight smart in his fight against Tony.
I mean, at even odds, I'd take Khabib. Khabib is a freaking monster and you'd be a fool to pick any other 155'er to beat him at even odds. But at -360??? Not a chance. I'm either keeping my money in my pocket or I'm taking Gaethe.
I think Whitaker/Cannonier is a coin flip. I'm going to say Whittaker by decision but who the F knows.
And I've got Volkov over Walt Harris mostly because I'm not that impressed with Harris. I don't really remember much of Volkov's prior fights.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 24, 2020 11:54:52 GMT -5
Gaethe is a +280 underdog. That seems really high to me. Gaethe is a much better version of Al Iaquinta and Khabib didn't steamroll Al. Gaethe seems tailor made to beat Khabib, with his power, stamina, and excellent defensive wrestling. Plus, Gaethe showed he can fight smart in his fight against Tony. I mean, at even odds, I'd take Khabib. Khabib is a freaking monster and you'd be a fool to pick any other 155'er to beat him at even odds. But at -360??? Not a chance. I'm either keeping my money in my pocket or I'm taking Gaethe. I think Whitaker/Cannonier is a coin flip. I'm going to say Whittaker by decision but who the F knows. And I've got Volkov over Walt Harris mostly because I'm not that impressed with Harris. I don't really remember much of Volkov's prior fights. Yeah, I agree that betting on Khabib just isn’t worth the payout or risk/reward. How are you guys feeling about the early start to this card? I have to admit I’m enjoying it. I’m not a fan of staying up till 1 am to watch a card so this works for me.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 24, 2020 16:12:49 GMT -5
Damn, I was hoping Khabib might be willing to have one more super fight with GSP before retiring, but no way he ever fights again.
Great performance from Khabib but I am more than a little disappointed with Gaethje. I thought he would have offered more, especially with some TDD.
Congrats to Bobby Knuckles on his win. I didn’t think he would pull it out, but you can’t help but like and respect the guy.
I’m still pretty choked that my girl Jojua didn’t pull off the win.
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 24, 2020 21:10:53 GMT -5
Great performance by Khabib, with a few broken bones in his foot...
Not one single underdog won... Cowboy was a dog by the time the fight started and Whitaker was an even fight.
Wonder what happens next... Tony vs Chandler, Conor vs Dustin.. Winners fight foe the title?
I like Justin but hard to give him back to back title shit after losing. No?
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Post by Fasthands25 on Oct 24, 2020 23:09:34 GMT -5
Great performance by Khabib, with a few broken bones in his foot... Not one single underdog won... Cowboy was a dog by the time the fight started and Whitaker was an even fight. Wonder what happens next... Tony vs Chandler, Conor vs Dustin.. Winners fight foe the title? I like Justin but hard to give him back to back title shit after losing. No? I didn't see the post fight presser so for all I know this has been ruled out... but I have a strong hunch they will make Dustin/Conor for the vacant belt.
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Post by jamesod on Oct 25, 2020 9:46:24 GMT -5
Ok, john, who do you have on Saturday? Khabib v. Justin Robert Whittaker v. Cannonier Volkov v. Walt Harris I think in all instances the choices are quite obvious. But maybe I don't have the trained eye of an expert. Alright, the expert aka the Daywork of fight picking will share my selections. I’m taking Khabib by maul. A lot of people are picking Gaethje, but I’m giving him a zero chance. I don’t think anyone can beat Khabib at 155, and that includes GSP. At 170 would be a different matter. Here’s the pick you likely will disagree with. I’m taking Cannonier to shock the world and beat Whittaker. I think the years have caught up to Robert and I thought he looked slow against Till. Put your hard earned money on Cannonier. I’m taking Volkov over Harris, but this is the least confident I am and likely won’t bet on it. Who ya got? Good picks, John. I don't know why everyone thinks you suck at mma.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 25, 2020 18:45:01 GMT -5
Alright, the expert aka the Daywork of fight picking will share my selections. I’m taking Khabib by maul. A lot of people are picking Gaethje, but I’m giving him a zero chance. I don’t think anyone can beat Khabib at 155, and that includes GSP. At 170 would be a different matter. Here’s the pick you likely will disagree with. I’m taking Cannonier to shock the world and beat Whittaker. I think the years have caught up to Robert and I thought he looked slow against Till. Put your hard earned money on Cannonier. I’m taking Volkov over Harris, but this is the least confident I am and likely won’t bet on it. Who ya got? Good picks, John. I don't know why everyone thinks you suck at mma. I suck at mma? I’ll have you know I submitted an opponent using a twister yesterday. Wait, did you mean at picking winners in mma? Yeah, I kinda suck at that.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 25, 2020 18:48:09 GMT -5
Great performance by Khabib, with a few broken bones in his foot... Not one single underdog won... Cowboy was a dog by the time the fight started and Whitaker was an even fight. Wonder what happens next... Tony vs Chandler, Conor vs Dustin.. Winners fight foe the title? I like Justin but hard to give him back to back title shit after losing. No? A four man tournament makes the most sense to me, but the UFC will likely give Conor an immediate title fight.
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Post by jamesod on Oct 27, 2020 10:14:36 GMT -5
Jon Jones posted a little video bitching about people saying Khabib is the GOAT. He said he has 15 titles to Khabib's four titles. I think he must be talking about title fights won?
What do you all think? I think Khabib dominated a much tougher division than Jon, but did so for a shorter time. Jon looked beatable against Gus, Dominick Reyes, and Thiago Santos. And maybe a little beatable in his first fight against Cormier. Jon has lost many rounds in his UFC fights.
To me, Khabib hasn't looked beatable since 2012 (I vaguely remember him struggling against Gleison Thibeau, despite wining a unanimous decision). Since then Khabib has lost two rounds - one against Conor and one against Gaethe. Both of whom he then finished in the very next round. In 38 rounds in the UFC, Khabib has won 36 of them.
I'm going to go with Khabib. I think maybe my bias in really thinking the 155 division is so tough, and the 205 division was never at all deep in all of JJ's years dominating that division, is a big factor. And JJ's close fights at 205, when Khabib had no close fights at 155, also play in.
Plus, JJ is a cheater.
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 27, 2020 13:14:58 GMT -5
As much as I dislike Jon I have to go with him. He was champ before Khabib was even fighting in the UFC... Has about as many title defenses as Khabib has UFC fights.
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Post by MMAJim on Oct 27, 2020 13:18:15 GMT -5
JJ has nobody to blame but himself. P4P Khabib has been more dominant throughout his career. GOAT? I don't even know what GOAT means.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 27, 2020 15:07:59 GMT -5
Andy Wang is a warrior.
Never forget that.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 27, 2020 15:59:57 GMT -5
It looks like the resident MMA expert is going to have to set you chumps straight.
Khabib - current P4P ranking should be #1. In current form, he is clearly the best and most dominant.
As for GOAT, I would have to edge it to JJ. Khabib just hasn’t had the longevity as a champion to push him past JJ when looking at their overall careers.
Andy Wang is a warrior.
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Post by jamesod on Oct 27, 2020 19:19:48 GMT -5
Jon Jones lost to Matt Hamill. I don't know how anyone could pick Jones as the GOAT. But seriously, I just think the 155 division is so much better than the 205 division.
Jones beat a past-his-prime Shogun (that guy has been past his prime for 9 years; it's amazing he's still fighting) for the title. Then he beat a bunch of 185'ers, many of whom were past their prime: Hendo, Machida, Chael, Rashad He beat some dudes that had no right to be in a title fight: OSP, Anthony Smith And he had some impressive wins: Cormier, Gus, Dominick Reyes (in a fight a majority of people thinks Jon lost), Thiago Santos.
I suppose you can call the eye-poke bonanza against Glover a good win too. But I just can't fathom that a guy as slow as Glover is a top 5 fighter in any division.
Meanwhile, Khabib dominated the ever living fuck out of... Former champ Dos Anjos; Michael Johnson, Edson Barboza, former champ Conor, Dustin, and interim champ Gaethje.
And he had other fringe top 10-15 wins against guys like Al I, Gleison Tibeau, Pat Healy, Thiago Tavares.
I don't think JBJ's resume is better than Khabibs. But I'm still considering it. Certainly, Khabib's decision to not put another three or four big wins under his belt hurts his case. But... Barry Sanders is still Barry fucking Sanders even though he retired at 30 or whatever.
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mmadoc
Junior Member
Posts: 78
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Post by mmadoc on Oct 27, 2020 20:25:42 GMT -5
GOAT: this includes a complete body of work in MMA and life. Multiple PED violations, horrible character outside the cage/drug and MVA violations...........Jones is a crap person but a great fighter only. Khabib/GSP at the top, and Jones might get sloppy 3rds.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 28, 2020 15:12:03 GMT -5
Jon Jones lost to Matt Hamill. I don't know how anyone could pick Jones as the GOAT. But seriously, I just think the 155 division is so much better than the 205 division. Jones beat a past-his-prime Shogun (that guy has been past his prime for 9 years; it's amazing he's still fighting) for the title. Then he beat a bunch of 185'ers, many of whom were past their prime: Hendo, Machida, Chael, Rashad He beat some dudes that had no right to be in a title fight: OSP, Anthony Smith And he had some impressive wins: Cormier, Gus, Dominick Reyes (in a fight a majority of people thinks Jon lost), Thiago Santos. I suppose you can call the eye-poke bonanza against Glover a good win too. But I just can't fathom that a guy as slow as Glover is a top 5 fighter in any division. Meanwhile, Khabib dominated the ever living fuck out of... Former champ Dos Anjos; Michael Johnson, Edson Barboza, former champ Conor, Dustin, and interim champ Gaethje. And he had other fringe top 10-15 wins against guys like Al I, Gleison Tibeau, Pat Healy, Thiago Tavares. I don't think JBJ's resume is better than Khabibs. But I'm still considering it. Certainly, Khabib's decision to not put another three or four big wins under his belt hurts his case. But... Barry Sanders is still Barry fucking Sanders even though he retired at 30 or whatever. I’m not as impressed with Khabib’s scalps as you are. I’m not sure they are absolute killers. I grant you Conor, RDA and Gaethje as being impressive wins. I’m not so sure about Dustin. Isn’t he the guy who got cleaned by Conor and barely squeaked by Hooker recently? I know he beat Gaethje, but arguments can be made about how great Gaethje is. Maybe Khabib is head and shoulders the best of a mediocre (hi Duval) bunch? I rate Khabib highly and have him as my current P4P #1. I just need a longer title run to place him as the GOAT. By the way, I love how DC always clamours for Khabib as the GOAT. It wouldn’t have anything to do with his hatred of JJ now would it?
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Post by jamesod on Oct 28, 2020 15:35:43 GMT -5
Jon Jones lost to Matt Hamill. I don't know how anyone could pick Jones as the GOAT. But seriously, I just think the 155 division is so much better than the 205 division. Jones beat a past-his-prime Shogun (that guy has been past his prime for 9 years; it's amazing he's still fighting) for the title. Then he beat a bunch of 185'ers, many of whom were past their prime: Hendo, Machida, Chael, Rashad He beat some dudes that had no right to be in a title fight: OSP, Anthony Smith And he had some impressive wins: Cormier, Gus, Dominick Reyes (in a fight a majority of people thinks Jon lost), Thiago Santos. I suppose you can call the eye-poke bonanza against Glover a good win too. But I just can't fathom that a guy as slow as Glover is a top 5 fighter in any division. Meanwhile, Khabib dominated the ever living fuck out of... Former champ Dos Anjos; Michael Johnson, Edson Barboza, former champ Conor, Dustin, and interim champ Gaethje. And he had other fringe top 10-15 wins against guys like Al I, Gleison Tibeau, Pat Healy, Thiago Tavares. I don't think JBJ's resume is better than Khabibs. But I'm still considering it. Certainly, Khabib's decision to not put another three or four big wins under his belt hurts his case. But... Barry Sanders is still Barry fucking Sanders even though he retired at 30 or whatever. I’m not as impressed with Khabib’s scalps as you are. I’m not sure they are absolute killers. I grant you that Conor, RDA and Gaethje as being impressive wins. I’m not so sure about Dustin. Isn’t he the guy who got cleaned by Conor and barely squeaked by Hooker recently? I know he beat Gaethje, but arguments can be made about how great Gaethje is. Maybe Khabib is the head and shoulders the best of a mediocre (hi Duval) bunch? I rate Khabib highly and have him as my current P4P #1. I just need a longer title run to place him as the GOAT. By the way, I love how DC always clamours for Khabib as the GOAT. It wouldn’t have anything to do with his hatred of JJ now would it? In addition to Cormier's hatred for Jon, he also trains with Khabib. And Khabib seems like a genuinely good dude. But yeah, Cormier certainly has a strong bias. I think GOAT necessarily can't go back too far. You just can't compare Royce to today's fighters. Probably same with BJ/Fedor/prime Shogun, Liddell, Rich Franklin etc. The level of competition then wouldn't even be in the UFC today. For me, the farthest back I'll go with comparing today's fighters to yesterday's fighters is probably Anderson and GSP. So, my thought on GOAT is it's probably among: Anderson, GSP, Cejudo, DJ, Khabib, and JBJ. (Honorable mentions to Cormier and Stipe. But they're not in the actual conversation for me.) Of those six, I'm not sure there's a wrong answer. Maybe Cejudo is a wrong answer in light of the fact that, while he beat TJ and DJ, he doesn't really have other signature wins. But he is a champ/champ and TJ and DJ were two of the best ever in the lighter weights. Add in the victory over Dom and he has something to talk about. But still, I think he needs another couple of big name wins and, unfortunately for him, there aren't really any big names in the kids' divisions anymore. But really, if your GOAT is any of those six I'm probably not arguing with you too much.
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 28, 2020 15:45:30 GMT -5
Come on James you're above some of that.
Machida and Evans were 205 Champs, they were 205er who dropped to 185 after Jon whooped their ass. Vitor had won 7of 8 only losing to Silva.
Yet you name beating Micheal Johnson as some great accomplishment when he had lost to Myles Jury, Reza Madadi(who?) Dariush, Díaz...
Why isn't the win over Conor count as a 145er? He only had a 1-1 record at LW.
Khabib is a bad ass, no doubt but to be at the top for as long as Jon has been is very impressive and he's not even done.
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Post by jamesod on Oct 28, 2020 16:37:45 GMT -5
Come on James you're above some of that. Machida and Evans were 205 Champs, they were 205er who dropped to 185 after Jon whooped their ass. Vitor had won 7of 8 only losing to Silva. Yet you name beating Micheal Johnson as some great accomplishment when he had lost to Myles Jury, Reza Madadi(who?) Dariush, Díaz... Why isn't the win over Conor count as a 145er? He only had a 1-1 record at LW. Khabib is a bad ass, no doubt but to be at the top for as long as Jon has been is very impressive and he's not even done. I was just f'ing around calling Rashad a 185'er. I know he's a legit 205 former champ who fought nearly all of his career at 205. As was Machida. But by body type, Rashad and Machida are more 185'ers than Conor is a 145er. For sure JBJ is impressive. He's ridiculous. The two Gus wins and two Cormier wins were huge. But in fairness he hasn't looked great lately. Last three fights have been fairly mediocre. Two of those he arguably lost by decision.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 28, 2020 19:05:46 GMT -5
Come on James you're above some of that. Machida and Evans were 205 Champs, they were 205er who dropped to 185 after Jon whooped their ass. Vitor had won 7of 8 only losing to Silva. Yet you name beating Micheal Johnson as some great accomplishment when he had lost to Myles Jury, Reza Madadi(who?) Dariush, Díaz... Why isn't the win over Conor count as a 145er? He only had a 1-1 record at LW. Khabib is a bad ass, no doubt but to be at the top for as long as Jon has been is very impressive and he's not even done. I was just f'ing around calling Rashad a 185'er. I know he's a legit 205 former champ who fought nearly all of his career at 205. As was Machida. But by body type, Rashad and Machida are more 185'ers than Conor is a 145er. For sure JBJ is impressive. He's ridiculous. The two Gus wins and two Cormier wins were huge. But in fairness he hasn't looked great lately. Last three fights have been fairly mediocre. Two of those he arguably lost by decision. I guess JJ’s foray into HW will settle the argument. If he can manage to win a title I don’t think there can be any argument. I don’t think Khabib would have been able to make a good run at WW. I would have loved to see him try though.
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Post by jamesod on Oct 29, 2020 8:51:25 GMT -5
I was just f'ing around calling Rashad a 185'er. I know he's a legit 205 former champ who fought nearly all of his career at 205. As was Machida. But by body type, Rashad and Machida are more 185'ers than Conor is a 145er. For sure JBJ is impressive. He's ridiculous. The two Gus wins and two Cormier wins were huge. But in fairness he hasn't looked great lately. Last three fights have been fairly mediocre. Two of those he arguably lost by decision. I guess JJ’s foray into HW will settle the argument. If he can manage to win a title I don’t think there can be any argument. I don’t think Khabib would have been able to make a good run at WW. I would have loved to see him try though. Holy shit. Look at John making a good point. Has the whole world gone crazy? I agree. If JBJ gets even two good wins at HW and one of those gets him the strap, I think that would move him out of what might otherwise be a six-way tie for GOAT. I would have loved to see Khabib at WW. Can you imagine Khabib v. Maia? Assuming it didn't end up as a shitty kickboxing match, that would be nuts. But yeah, I don't see him being a legit title contender at WW.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 29, 2020 19:11:49 GMT -5
I guess JJ’s foray into HW will settle the argument. If he can manage to win a title I don’t think there can be any argument. I don’t think Khabib would have been able to make a good run at WW. I would have loved to see him try though. Holy shit. Look at John making a good point. Has the whole world gone crazy? I agree. If JBJ gets even two good wins at HW and one of those gets him the strap, I think that would move him out of what might otherwise be a six-way tie for GOAT. I would have loved to see Khabib at WW. Can you imagine Khabib v. Maia? Assuming it didn't end up as a shitty kickboxing match, that would be nuts. But yeah, I don't see him being a legit title contender at WW. The whole world has definitely gone crazy. Dana said today he thinks Khabib will fight once more to reach 30-0. Other than a GSP super fight, I don’t know who else would intrigue Khabib enough to fight again. I don’t know if GSP could make 155 so it likely would be at a catch weight. 165 has been mentioned. It’s still all hearsay anyways. I also read that 254 only drew 675 000 buys. I thought it would have came close to a million.
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Post by jamesod on Oct 30, 2020 7:49:55 GMT -5
Holy shit. Look at John making a good point. Has the whole world gone crazy? I agree. If JBJ gets even two good wins at HW and one of those gets him the strap, I think that would move him out of what might otherwise be a six-way tie for GOAT. I would have loved to see Khabib at WW. Can you imagine Khabib v. Maia? Assuming it didn't end up as a shitty kickboxing match, that would be nuts. But yeah, I don't see him being a legit title contender at WW. The whole world has definitely gone crazy. Dana said today he thinks Khabib will fight once more to reach 30-0. Other than a GSP super fight, I don’t know who else would intrigue Khabib enough to fight again. I don’t know if GSP could make 155 so it likely would be at a catch weight. 165 has been mentioned. It’s still all hearsay anyways. I also read that 254 only drew 675 000 buys. I thought it would have came close to a million. Ok, whew. Back to John's stupid takes. I thought 254 was a totally shitty card on paper other than the top 2 fights. I think 675k is very respectable considering that it was an early afternoon PPV and only the top two fights were of interest to anyone other than the most die-hard of fans.
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Post by johncfc on Oct 30, 2020 13:28:51 GMT -5
The whole world has definitely gone crazy. Dana said today he thinks Khabib will fight once more to reach 30-0. Other than a GSP super fight, I don’t know who else would intrigue Khabib enough to fight again. I don’t know if GSP could make 155 so it likely would be at a catch weight. 165 has been mentioned. It’s still all hearsay anyways. I also read that 254 only drew 675 000 buys. I thought it would have came close to a million. Ok, whew. Back to John's stupid takes. I thought 254 was a totally shitty card on paper other than the top 2 fights. I think 675k is very respectable considering that it was an early afternoon PPV and only the top two fights were of interest to anyone other than the most die-hard of fans. Shitty card? Jojua was on it bud! I guess I thought it would sell more as I read the day of the event that there was a high expectation of sales. Maybe I overestimated Khabib’s selling power as well. Regardless, 675 000 blows. Sure, Mighty Mouse would have killed for those numbers, but it still sucks.
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