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Post by boboplata on Feb 4, 2017 1:22:49 GMT -5
Ok, I'm not trying to get back into arguments about politics, but are you guys paying attention to the reaction Trump's getting for denying 100,000 people visas for being Muslims? Are you missing that federal judges are opposing Trump's orders to revoke visas based on religion? This isn't some dumb liberals vs conservatives shit, this is the executive branch beginning to battle the judicial branch over the fucking constitution 2 weeks into Trump's presidency. This isn't ordinary politics, this is the kind of shit that people more than twice my age are saying they haven't witnessed the like of in their lifetimes. Trump is blossoming into a fascist, and within one-two year's time MAX the people who have so blindly favored Trump will realize what those who oppose him have been saying all along. This is going to come to a head FAST. I don't know what's going to happen,but within one year's time things are going to be spinning out of control. www.wsj.com/articles/legal-feud-over-trump-immigration-order-turns-to-visa-revocations-1486153216www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/01/trump_s_executive_order_is_an_unconstitutional_attack_on_muslims.htmlYeah they're muslims but check the countries 1st and not the religion. There are still dozens of muslim countries who still got their shit together. Also Iran is hosting the wrestling world cup and has banned the US team.
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Post by boboplata on Feb 4, 2017 1:27:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 1:31:52 GMT -5
Ok, I'm not trying to get back into arguments about politics, but are you guys paying attention to the reaction Trump's getting for denying 100,000 people visas for being Muslims? Are you missing that federal judges are opposing Trump's orders to revoke visas based on religion? This isn't some dumb liberals vs conservatives shit, this is the executive branch beginning to battle the judicial branch over the fucking constitution 2 weeks into Trump's presidency. This isn't ordinary politics, this is the kind of shit that people more than twice my age are saying they haven't witnessed the like of in their lifetimes. Trump is blossoming into a fascist, and within one-two year's time MAX the people who have so blindly favored Trump will realize what those who oppose him have been saying all along. This is going to come to a head FAST. I don't know what's going to happen,but within one year's time things are going to be spinning out of control. www.wsj.com/articles/legal-feud-over-trump-immigration-order-turns-to-visa-revocations-1486153216www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/01/trump_s_executive_order_is_an_unconstitutional_attack_on_muslims.htmlYeah they're muslims but check the countries 1st and not the religion. There are still dozens of muslim countries who still got their shit together. Also Iran is hosting the wrestling world cup and has banned the US team. You are missing the point on countries vs religion. What he's doing is straight up unconstitutional and denying people re-entry into the United States or their countries of origin for their religion and who influenced it, but Stephen fucking Bannon. Shit is just beginning to get stirred up. These are people who can't get back into the U.S./their country because Trump called on them to be stopped based on religion. This isn't going to go away. Just watch. Trump is going to get more and more of the U.S. government pissed at him for this and many other things. It's not going to be the liberals he has to watch out for, but the other republicans in congress and the judicial branch. The things he's just beginning to set into motion will become an all out storm within a year's time, and everyone can go back and see that I called it. Not saying I know what will happen, just that some serious shit will go down with LOTS of Trump supporters eventually realizing he's a fucking fascist who never really had any sound plan behind what he'd do as president in the first place. He doesn't even realize he's the president yet. He thinks he's still a reality TV star. He's gonna be a DISASTROUS failure as president.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 1:37:25 GMT -5
Dude, that's a ridiculous quote. He's calling on people being denied entry into the U.S. or back into their countries based on religion and this goes FAR beyond Syria. What he's doing is straight up against the constitution. There's no justification and he isn't make anything safer, he's making shit more dangerous and turning the Muslim world more against us. I don't want to get back into political shit on this forum with the regular right wingers, and this shit goes FAR beyond right/left wing. Just wait till we see what happens within the next year. He's gonna turn the rest of the republicans in congress and the other branches of government against him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 1:48:45 GMT -5
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Post by Angelo on Feb 4, 2017 3:06:39 GMT -5
Ok, I'm not trying to get back into arguments about politics, but are you guys paying attention to the reaction Trump's getting for trying to halt 100,000+ people visas for being Muslims? Are you missing that federal judges are opposing Trump's orders to revoke visas based on religion? This isn't some dumb liberals vs conservatives shit, this is the executive branch beginning to battle the judicial branch over the fucking constitution 2 weeks into Trump's presidency. This isn't ordinary politics, this is the kind of shit that people more than twice my age are saying they haven't witnessed the like of in their lifetimes. Trump is blossoming into a fascist, and within one-two year's time MAX the people who have so blindly favored Trump will realize what those who oppose him have been saying all along. This is going to come to a head FAST. I don't know what's going to happen,but within one year's time things are going to be spinning out of control. www.wsj.com/articles/legal-feud-over-trump-immigration-order-turns-to-visa-revocations-1486153216www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/01/trump_s_executive_order_is_an_unconstitutional_attack_on_muslims.htmlSo... Where was your outrage when Obama ignored multiple court injunctions on his immigration orders and even programs? Or where was your outrage when Obama and every previous president in modern times did the same thing? The only difference is under Trump's ban, he's actually still allowing 3x the amount of refugees per day in (from those 7 countries alone) than Obama did outside his ban for the entirety of the globe. The only difference between the two is the side yelling about it. edit: Oh yeah, and Trump's order has a lifespan, Obama and previous Presidents did their indefinitely.
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Post by slaytan on Feb 4, 2017 6:55:40 GMT -5
If only toehold hadn't put me on ignore
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 8:47:32 GMT -5
Jesus fuck toehold, your stupidity doesn't end... there is no ban based on religion, period. Sure your liberal sources will tell you that, and since you don't care about facts you will believe them. There is not 1 mention of Muslim or religion in the entire eo. This is a TEMPORARY ban on countries that were identified by Obama as having insufficient infrastructure to properly screen travelers until we can verify our system is competent enough to rely on .
Yes, it's that fucking simple and straightforward, yet you are being spoon fed a bunch of garbage that you are eating up because of pure ignorance.
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Post by slaytan on Feb 4, 2017 9:29:32 GMT -5
Jesus fuck toehold, your stupidity doesn't end... there is no ban based on religion, period. Sure your liberal sources will tell you that, and since you don't care about facts you will believe them. There is not 1 mention of Muslim or religion in the entire eo. This is a TEMPORARY ban on countries that were identified by Obama as having insufficient infrastructure to properly screen travelers until we can verify our system is competent enough to rely on . Yes, it's that fucking simple and straightforward, yet you are being spoon fed a bunch of garbage that you are eating up because of pure ignorance. 1)There very much should be a religious ban against muslims 2) if there were a religious ban against christians, or a racial one against whites, every toehold of the word would scratch their chins thoughtfully and explain why it was reasonable
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 4, 2017 10:52:51 GMT -5
Not going to read any of it because you are making an emotional argument, not a legal one. Therein lies the huge divide between liberals and rational thought. YOU don't like it, YOU don't think it's fair and YOU think it's a religious ban. Liberal judges, who also ignore law and fall to emotion, at least a handful of them, will make the same argument. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the law. Here are a few key things you are missing: 1). People outside the United States do NOT have any constitutional protection and this has been spelled out multiple times. I know because DHS dismisses lawsuits of people we deport all the time. If we DID allow non citizens to have constitutional protection it would crush our court system on the same day that was applied. 2). Congress grants the president wide latitude in determining which aliens or classes of aliens can be denied admission in the INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES. Any legal scholar and any constitutional attorney, and really any paralegal or 4th grader can read the plain language in the Immigration and Nationality Act and it's clear as day. I could copy and paste but it's not worth the effort and you can look it up yourself. I am not even going into the fact of what past President's have done in assuming the exact same authority because it would be lost on you, but from a legal perspective - you have no argument. None of these judges have an argument, and you'll see that proven shortly.
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 4, 2017 10:56:52 GMT -5
Ok, I'm not trying to get back into arguments about politics, but are you guys paying attention to the reaction Trump's getting for trying to halt 100,000+ people visas for being Muslims? Are you missing that federal judges are opposing Trump's orders to revoke visas based on religion? This isn't some dumb liberals vs conservatives shit, this is the executive branch beginning to battle the judicial branch over the fucking constitution 2 weeks into Trump's presidency. This isn't ordinary politics, this is the kind of shit that people more than twice my age are saying they haven't witnessed the like of in their lifetimes. Trump is blossoming into a fascist, and within one-two year's time MAX the people who have so blindly favored Trump will realize what those who oppose him have been saying all along. This is going to come to a head FAST. I don't know what's going to happen,but within one year's time things are going to be spinning out of control. www.wsj.com/articles/legal-feud-over-trump-immigration-order-turns-to-visa-revocations-1486153216www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/01/trump_s_executive_order_is_an_unconstitutional_attack_on_muslims.htmlSo... Where was your outrage when Obama ignored multiple court injunctions on his immigration orders and even programs? Or where was your outrage when Obama and every previous president in modern times did the same thing? The only difference is under Trump's ban, he's actually still allowing 3x the amount of refugees per day in (from those 7 countries alone) than Obama did outside his ban for the entirety of the globe. The only difference between the two is the side yelling about it. edit: Oh yeah, and Trump's order has a lifespan, Obama and previous Presidents did their indefinitely. 100% inaccurate. We are not allowing in any refugees right now from any of the 7 countries though we are still conducting interviews for those looking at resettlement. Get the fuck out of this thread and stay the fuck out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 11:05:08 GMT -5
Last Saturday, I filed my taxes. For the last 20 years or so, it's taken about a month-and-a-half to get my return.
This year, under the Trump Administration, I got them back in a week. Never in my life have my federal returns gotten here faster than my state returns did.
Gentlemen. File your taxes. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 12:52:38 GMT -5
So... Where was your outrage when Obama ignored multiple court injunctions on his immigration orders and even programs? Or where was your outrage when Obama and every previous president in modern times did the same thing? The only difference is under Trump's ban, he's actually still allowing 3x the amount of refugees per day in (from those 7 countries alone) than Obama did outside his ban for the entirety of the globe. The only difference between the two is the side yelling about it. edit: Oh yeah, and Trump's order has a lifespan, Obama and previous Presidents did their indefinitely. 100% inaccurate. We are not allowing in any refugees right now from any of the 7 countries though we are still conducting interviews for those looking at resettlement. Get the fuck out of this thread and stay the fuck out. How do you feel about the moratorium? Is it actually accomplishing anything?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 12:58:11 GMT -5
Toehold, you are terribly misinformed and your habit of allowing news organizations to use blatant confirmation bias against you is apparent in your position and demeanor. You're the picture of a scared shitless liberal who reads Vox and Politico and Huffington and then, apparently, never bothers to go out and get the other side of the story. I am not terribly misinformed. So I am going to teach you the right way to do it. Today, I woke up to news that some federal judge in liberal Seattle decided to strike down the entire ban on behalf of the entire country. I found this to be strange. So I did what I always do. Here are the stories I read about this specific issue. The links below are the order in which I read them. Note the order, because that is very important. First we have the retarded bitches at Huffington Post. I always start there to hear what those self loathing white bitches have to say, unless they decide to take the weekend off and make their headlines nothing but links to other news sources, which is what they did today. So we have to fall back to some other bastion of liberal bullshit, such as: (Take note of: Adjectives used, and the final sentence.) www.vox.com/2017/2/3/14505510/trump-muslim-ban-lawsuitThen we take a massive leap across the political spectrum and head over to some paragon of conservative virtue, such as: (Take note of: Adjectives used, and the final sentence.) www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/04/trump-calls-judge-s-halt-on-immigration-ridiculous-says-will-be-overturned.htmlThen, we have to take both of those stories and measure them against the standard for reporting in the world. There is only one. And it is: (Take note of: Adjectives used, and the final sentence.) www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-idUSKBN15I1CMYou can see pretty plain as day, which side is pushing their bias on you- really hard. I've engaged in this practice forever. It is easy, and it gives you the most clear view of who is telling you the truth and who is telling you the truth they wish was true. Ever since August of 2016, the Reuters test has been fucking the left wing media right up the poop chute. Their hyperbole is exposed using this method of information gathering. The three stories above present very different pictures of the same event. But who's closer to the Reuters story? Vox? Or Fox? And did you notice the strength of the adjectives used in the Vox piece, in contrast with the adjectives used in the other two stories? I'm trying to teach you this so that two things can happen. 1. You can stop making asinine predictions. I've got friends who do the same shit you do and only read the left. They're all out there saying crazy shit like Trump is going to be impeached and how the "Republicans are going to turn on him", and all this bullshit that is nothing more than wishful thinking which has been pushed on them by their pandering news organizations. You guys actually put so much stock in these predictions that you actually think they are likely. You guys are wishing, and hoping, and praying, and none of that is going to amount to a pile of beans. 2. You can stop being so obviously scared of Trump. Because it is clear that you're scared, but a little intelligence injected into your news gathering practices would help take that fear away. And it would help you seem like less of a Chicken Little too.
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Post by locogato11283 on Feb 4, 2017 13:19:14 GMT -5
When did Angelo change his name to toehold?
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Post by ocmmafan on Feb 4, 2017 14:01:54 GMT -5
100% inaccurate. We are not allowing in any refugees right now from any of the 7 countries though we are still conducting interviews for those looking at resettlement. Get the fuck out of this thread and stay the fuck out. How do you feel about the moratorium? Is it actually accomplishing anything? It's a bit haphazard at the moment but I don't see how it can hurt. Their is always pressure to approve cases at USCIS (benefit granting agency) and this should allow them to slow down, pay attention, and not feel like every case needs instant approval. How it works via background screening? It's tough screening refugees outside of biometrics, but if we don't have the massive pressure to bring everyone in ASAP, we do have boots on the ground everywhere and they can and do get intel about who is associating with groups we don't want. For visa holders? If you are a current F-1 student visa holder from Iran and it takes us 30 more days to re-run your background? Hell yes, that helps. And here is the rub: these are NON-immigrant visas meaning these people cannot have DUEL intent to both study here AND LIVE here. It's a temporary visa. So they have to have a residence abroad (assume a family) to go back to. That's what they attest to when we provide the visa in the first place, but we never monitor or enforce departure control so people start taking advantage and think once in, they are in forever. That's not how the law works, even if under Obama we always ignored visa violators and overstays. So yeah, it's an interruption for some but it's necessary. They can avoid it by not leaving. If you have applied for a visa and now have a longer wait? So what? Every country has standards for issuing visas and many take awhile. We are fast, more people come here than anywhere else, and they will still come here if they have to wait. Taking an extra month or two may not do much, but it certainly won't hurt. We will see over the next few months how many visa holders and applicants we catch that are linked to flagged groups. We are the only show in town and won't be "losing" any valuable visitor or immigrant to any other country so I personally don't see the downside. Cost of doing business. And people don't understand that under current operations, we DO sometimes run into an issue where a visa is approved in the US and then State Department won't issue it because they have intel we don't have. That happens all the time and people complain about it, but given they don't have any constitutional protection, you don't hear about it because State just won't issue the visa. They get held up for months and months all the time. Everyone I know that has met Kelly, and the non political appointee long time leadership - it's unanimous celebration. We don't make the laws but we are supposed to enforce them. Now we can (again).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 16:01:49 GMT -5
So, Federal judge said no-go to the moratorium. You think it will stick? Trying to make it about freedom of religion and how Mooslims are being persecuted I guess.
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Post by Angelo on Feb 4, 2017 17:44:29 GMT -5
So... Where was your outrage when Obama ignored multiple court injunctions on his immigration orders and even programs? Or where was your outrage when Obama and every previous president in modern times did the same thing? The only difference is under Trump's ban, he's actually still allowing 3x the amount of refugees per day in (from those 7 countries alone) than Obama did outside his ban for the entirety of the globe. The only difference between the two is the side yelling about it. edit: Oh yeah, and Trump's order has a lifespan, Obama and previous Presidents did their indefinitely. 100% inaccurate. We are not allowing in any refugees right now from any of the 7 countries though we are still conducting interviews for those looking at resettlement. Get the fuck out of this thread and stay the fuck out. Don't you work for DHS? Trump was granting 800+ exemptions a day. At least for the first 4 days after the order went into effect.
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Post by Angelo on Feb 4, 2017 17:53:17 GMT -5
So, Federal judge said no-go to the moratorium. You think it will stick? Trying to make it about freedom of religion and how Mooslims are being persecuted I guess. I don't think it will for a few simple reasons. 1. Every modern President has done the same, Obama I think it was 19 times (more than any other), and the courts wound up supporting the moratorium in the end. 2. Unlike every other modern President, what strengthens Trump's case IMO is he put a time limit on the moratorium, whereas the other Presidents made it indefinite. 90 days max, as early as 31 days. (by the way at the 30 day mark, Saudi Arabia may be given 60 days until they are on the banned list) 3. His order specifically spells out that it is to stop entry to people who practice religious discrimination, and violence against women, sorta defeating the emotional argument everyone is making.
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Post by Premier on Feb 4, 2017 20:13:13 GMT -5
Protest in the UK and Germany about Trump's refugee ban.
So people from another country want to force another country to take in refugees??
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 23:13:57 GMT -5
Protest in the UK and Germany about Trump's refugee ban. So people from another country want to force another country to take in refugees?? Why not? We have been the worlds police, bank, doctor, and now foster parents. How dare we look out for our own safety and financial interests.
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Post by Baph on Feb 4, 2017 23:21:09 GMT -5
Literal . . . and I do mean literal . . . LOL @ Germany protesting a cautionary stance on mass refugee importation. The irony is suffocating.
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Post by Premier on Feb 4, 2017 23:47:33 GMT -5
Oh the irony of Germany. But its even more disgusting coming from the UK after their brexit vote.
I guess all the UK protesters were the dumb millenials that voted No on brexit
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Post by Baph on Feb 4, 2017 23:59:18 GMT -5
Protesting is not enough to make me blink anymore. People are protesting something. Ok . . . WHO is protesting? A blue-haired gender fluid triggered millenial brat who thinks it's brave to destroy private property, other's creations, to assault and batter peacefully assembled spectators, to silence free speech?
Fucking christ, man. Light 'em up.
"In the future, the fascists will be called anti-fascists"
- George Orwell
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Post by Baph on Feb 5, 2017 11:13:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 20:34:42 GMT -5
100% inaccurate. We are not allowing in any refugees right now from any of the 7 countries though we are still conducting interviews for those looking at resettlement. Get the fuck out of this thread and stay the fuck out. Don't you work for DHS? Trump was granting 800+ exemptions a day. At least for the first 4 days after the order went into effect. I love when you try and tell others about their profession.
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Post by Angelo on Feb 5, 2017 20:36:18 GMT -5
Don't you work for DHS? Trump was granting 800+ exemptions a day. At least for the first 4 days after the order went into effect. I love when you try and tell others about their profession. Didn't he say before he works with them? If he really does he'd know that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 20:38:03 GMT -5
No, I really love it. It's the most preposterous and nervy shit I've ever seen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 20:40:18 GMT -5
I wasn't for it at first, but because it wastes up so much motherfucking space...I'm up for a jackal ban in this thread.
I don't see it as censorship I see it as putting the clamp down on letting bullshit flow into this thread.
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Post by Angelo on Feb 5, 2017 21:53:02 GMT -5
I wasn't for it at first, but because it wastes up so much motherfucking space...I'm up for a jackal ban in this thread. I don't see it as censorship I see it as putting the clamp down on letting bullshit flow into this thread. I've not been wrong about anything so far. I've been bringing up fair points both in support and against Trump. I also have an idea, if Trump wants to get full blown support from even the people against the Wall, all he has to do is legalize Marijuana. That is something he can actually do by executive order (because it wasn't made illegal in the same manner as most drugs that are). If he does that, there will be an increase in chatter from the cartels wanting to step up their control in the states, which leads to violence. Trump can then turn around and paint the cartels as people who hate our freedoms, just like we did post 9/11 to get support for invasions. No longer is it hatred for being Mexican or undocumented, but rather they hate our freedom, they attacking us.
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