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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:29:07 GMT -5
You're kinda clueless, aren't ya Toehold? No, Trump nominating him does not mean that he's "anti-weed". It means he likes the guy's record- which has nothing to do with weed at all. Yeah, he's hawkish on the topic. Just like pretty much every other older conservative. It's better to go off what Trump has actually said rather than trying to decipher some hidden meaning in a nominee. What he actually said is that it's a state's rights issue. That's it. Sessions can stick that in his pipe and smoke it. And you can too. I will stick something in my pipe and smoke it lol...wish I had some...that can easily be remedied and no law will or ever has stopped it lol. Yeah, I get there's other reasons to nominate the guy, but it means he's willing to overlook that one egregious issue and appoint someone who seems pretty terrible cause he likes other things about him. I think I better try to stop talking about anything political for a while and just keep to myself and read. It was always a bad idea. Thanks on your part for being patient and not going "TONY C style" on me lol. Years and years of hearing "libtard this" and "weak pussy liberal" that regarding anyone with leftward views finally took it's toll on me. We don't have almost ANYONE around her who's a dem/liberal that isn't scared off by the hoards of righties or if not righties Trump supporters. All I ask then is if you guys don't want me involved in political discussions try not to ever mention me or it will be hard.I've got bad enough self control as it is lol.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:33:17 GMT -5
Don't thank me. I edited it and did go Tony C style, but in a more light fashion. However it was on the previous page so no one, except for you, is going to see it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 19:38:20 GMT -5
Don't thank me. I edited it and did go Tony C style, but in a more light fashion. However it was on the previous page so no one, except for you, is going to see it. Oh great. Looks like I made the right decision to stop discussing politics (if I can even resist it now...we'll see). Funny I have never seen one person on this forum that was a liberal or democrat get crazy on anyone else...other than maybe me, but I can't really do it effectively. We just have a complete lack of them around here, meaning whatever anyone says politically I just have to listen to and suck up, or decide not to read it, cause I'm not very likely to see any opinions I DO like. Who knows, maybe I'll change some of my opinions in time, but it seems like politics and religion are topics I'd feel like EVERYONE should avoid unless it's your job to, or you actually ENJOY arguments, but you and many others on here kind of always have, and I don't...so I'm gonna try to stay out of this shit (we'll see if it lasts more than a week) and stick to the MMA forum. I don't care much about "ha has" at my expense, have a few more lol. Peace
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Post by Angelo on Dec 6, 2016 20:00:44 GMT -5
Remember this Toehold, even if Sessions wanted to go after states against Trump's wishes, HE WON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO SO. He may make a comment here or there but he won't actually be able to do anything. He'll be booted from the position so damned quick not only for going against Trump's orders, but also for misappropriating federal resources and funds.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 23:40:05 GMT -5
Back to the point of this thread, which is not Jeff Sessions being a stupid dick- Got the first run of LED testing started today. These suckers are bright. To the point that you'd be kinda stupid to walk into the room without eye protection on. There's some BBWhite Widow, Headband, Blue Power, and GSC in there. Should be out at the end of January. The pic below shows you what the green lenses in the protective glasses make things look like when the lights are on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 23:42:49 GMT -5
Going to be interesting to see the increase in yield from adding this element. Once that one is determined, there are two other aspects to test out before we're ready to scale it all up to the first warehouse.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 11:24:48 GMT -5
Should also point out that the above pictures were taken at the location of our current (100% legal in Maine) medical grow, out in the middle of nowhere.
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Post by Angelo on Dec 9, 2016 0:21:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 13:38:51 GMT -5
Interested to see your results with the led only. For flowering, I've never had the results I desired with led alone. Never could get the flowers to the density that I like.
Also, is that a 4 x 4 x 8 tent?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 17:10:43 GMT -5
That's a 5X5X8 that's one of several tents that size in the space. The LED that's in there is good for a tent much larger, this was just the first one we got going. Two more lights are going into the bigger tents next week. These specific LED's were tested at The Farm in Denver. They outperformed every other light, including old school HPS lights. The guys at Black Dog have really nailed the spectrum. Will share some pictures of the final results at the end of January.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 18:16:13 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to checking it out. I was using tech from 6 years ago and I tried it again about 4 years ago. Always had to bring in the hPS for the flowering.
Like I said, I'm really intwrested in seeing how it works for you. I may go back and give it another shot
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 18:16:44 GMT -5
I'll take some pics of what I've got going on and share as well. They are about 6 Weeks in so will make for some pretty pics.
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Post by javier on Dec 14, 2016 20:20:28 GMT -5
I'm definitely interested too because I still use multiple 1000W HPS lights. I tried LED early on in 2007 when I was growing and the results were ok, but the HPS really gives me the weight I need from the flowers. Good luck on your grow!!
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Post by ToNoAvail on Dec 14, 2016 20:22:46 GMT -5
I've been outside the last few years but want to keep something going in the winter months so I decided to dabble inside a bit, more for hobby than anything. I get my weight from outside but the plants also took a few beatings via Midwest weather, I'd like to see if I can do better quality in a controlled environment. Just received my led light. Quality but nothing like your blackdog Tony, not ready for that kind of investment. I've definitely eyed them up though, I'd really like to see how they turn out for you. Right now I have some Super Lemon Haze germinating, freebies from an order last year. Just dabbling as of now, see what sticks. I'll share some pics when there's something worth sharing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 10:59:29 GMT -5
I've been watching LED's for a long, long time now. There are issues with a lot of the systems out there. One company, Kind LED, puts a lens on the outside of their light board which focuses all the light to the middle of the room. Not good. They also call their largest board something "1000", trying to imply 1000 watts. But it only actually uses 625.
The thing is, at least as far as I can see- you can't skimp on wattage and expect the same yields. These LED companies have been making all these claims about getting bigger yields with less electricity, and for the most part it's bullshit.
I've been watching for years waiting for someone to pull it off and do it right. Developments in the last five years have really lead to a lot of improvements in the quality of usable light from the LED boards. A few years ago, GE bought an old Sony factory in Japan and turned it into the largest LED indoor grow facility in the world. Last year, at 20 cents a head, they grew 20M worth of lettuce.
The big draw of LED's has always been (for me anyway)- their lifespan and their ability to achieve full light saturation throughout the room, even under the leaves. If some company could get the usable light spectrum sorted out and then apply that knowledge to how their boards are laid out, they would overcome the gap between old HPS and MH bulbs and LEDs. The thing has always been about yield and cost ratio for me. What Black Dog has successfully accomplished (based on the testing videos I've watched) is outperform 1000W HPS lights with their 1000W (it's actually 1015W) board. Our electricity costs will be about the same as anyone using HPS and MH bulbs because we're going to be using the same amount of electricity as them. But our lights will provide vastly more of the red and blue spectrum that the plants use to make sugar and grow, so we can expect our yields to be higher. The 10 week test run video I watched yielded about 1.2lbs from a 5X5 space. This is consistent with what we expect to grow in the same footprint.
Legalization in the states that have legalized, specifically Colorado, have lead to big time advancements that can be proven in a working environment. Black Dog's stuff has been proven in the biggest grow operation in Denver.
But here's where the difference can be seen, and where people using LED's are going to gain an edge- beyond improvements in their overall yield, they can expect much lower operating expenses over a longer timeline.
Your typical high end HPS bulb has a lifespan of 3000 hours and a cost of about $150 for just the bulb. The housing and ballasts etc should run you about $250 apiece but those won't need to be replaced. The Black Dog LED board has a lifespan of 50,000 hours and a cost of $2880.
Each of our grow spaces (that are different than what most are using. You'll see pictures down the line. Not tipping my hand in that regard yet.) will have three of these boards in them. To get the same level of light coverage from HPS bulbs you'd need to have 7 in there.
So each space's lighting expense to start up is around 9K with the LED's. It would cost $2800 (the cost of one board) to outfit with the HPS system. Basically the cost of one 1000W board from BD.
But then you have to examine long term costs.
3,000 hours = 125 days. Since your lights are only on for 12 hours a day- that's 250 days before you need to get another $150 dollar bulb.
50,000 hours = 2,083 days. With 12 hour run times that's 4,166 days. Roughly 11.3 years before we need to replace the boards.
One grow space with 7 HPS bulbs being replaced every 250 days is going to cost $1050. After two years, you have spent the same amount on bulbs as you would have spent on one board. After six you've spent the same as the cost of three LED boards. The LED's will have another five years of life in them at that point. At the end of those five years you've paid enough in bulb costs to buy another 2.5 boards.
And this is just in one space. Multiply these numbers by 10 (the number of grow spaces) and you can see how significant the long term savings are. The second half of an LED's lifespan is where it pulls away from HPS bulbs and proves to be the most cost effective lighting method. Now that yields are on par or superior to those of HPS bulbs, you're going to see LED's taking over in the largest grows.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 11:54:07 GMT -5
Loving it Sgm. You are making me want to kick it up a couple notches and get back into it more.
I've always cut costs by using t-5's for veg and for my mothers.
Do you use trays in those tents? I do, just to make it easier to catch run off water. That water then goes to my outdoor garden.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 13:22:48 GMT -5
We've got some air tables that are coming for the next phase of the experiment. They are a bit different than standard hydroponic tables. Getting a lot of use up in BC. The growers in BC have gotten their yields so high that they have the lowest price point for top shelf buds in North America. Air tables and LED's are a big part of that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 16:54:28 GMT -5
Do you leave the lights on 24 hours a day when growing? I might buy one of these to grow winter tomatoes... how much does a 3' x 5' setup cost? Seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 18:50:01 GMT -5
The lighting cycle for weed is all I'm really familiar with. It's probably similar for other plants too though, as they're all operating basically the same. But no, you don't leave them on 24 hours. You have to shut them off to let the plants use the energy they stored from the day's light to grow at night. For weed, you keep the lights on for 18 hour cycles during the vegetative process (and veg lights are usually 600W instead of 1000W). When they are ready to flower, you switch it to 12 hours on and 12 hours off. You probably don't need to go full on 1000W either with tomato plants. You can get a 3X5 tent for about $250. For something that size you'd probably want to go with a smaller light like a 600W. www.blackdogled.com/products-led/led-grow-lights/phytomax600.htmlYou can probably grow some bomb ass tomatoes with this shit.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 20:56:59 GMT -5
For veg you can use fluorescent t-5's which are cheap and cheap as fuck to run.
I know people that run a 24 hour veg room but I've always felt it was excessive, even with fluorescents. 18 and call it a day.
For tomatoes I've done outside in a makeshift greenhouse with a light on for an extra 4 hours that kicked on right at sunset. I've grown them and herbs like taragon and oregeno all year round.
I also use a fluorescent bulb for my porch light, I've got an amazing flower display off my porch in the planters. Best in the neighborhood. The lighting, the soil I tale castings from my work farm and water with my run off from my plants.
I guess what I'm saying is, fluorescent are underated
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 9:50:56 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't see a single benefit to going LED in your veg room or even MH in the veg room. T5 florescent is really all you need for that, it's cheaper and has all the light you need for veg. Our veg space will be using those. Might go MH for the mother-room, but we're still debating it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 18:32:30 GMT -5
Thanks, I am going to look in to this.... doesn't seem very expensive once you are set up. Could I sit with my plants and get suntanned?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 10:57:03 GMT -5
Thanks, I am going to look in to this.... doesn't seem very expensive once you are set up. Could I sit with my plants and get suntanned? lol. I don't know. I guess it would be a good way to see if they are full of shit when they claim UV light. I'd say just make sure you get some eye protection if you're going to go in when the lights are on. Not sure if you need sunscreen though. I should probably look into that before someone sues me for giving them skin cancer.
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Post by peAk on Dec 17, 2016 12:53:55 GMT -5
So seriously dumb question but this thread is interesting and I am curious to know....
Do all growers use artificial light or do any use real outdoor sunlight? Does using artificial light, and having the ability to control the amount, always yield better results?
I realize you are in Maine and don't have the best weather but was still curious.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 13:29:18 GMT -5
Back in the late 90s, we had a rotating light track in our main flowering room. MH and HPS is full rotation throughout the cycle. I once got a sunburn in there while scrubbing the floors withoUT a shirt on. Granted, I'm a lighter shade of white but yeaj they will burn.
Always wear eye protection no matter even if it's just fluorescents.
Peak, it's better in some ways because you can control the light cycles and in a controlled indoor enviroment, it should be harder to get pests and disease. Although things like that still happen to best of the best if they don't stay on top of it.
I do like outdoor growing but aside from the giant yields you can pull, indoor herbs should be superior in content, density, potential for flavor (which is the real trick imo), and crystal formation .
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Post by ToNoAvail on Dec 17, 2016 18:35:00 GMT -5
Hypothetically,
What nutrients do you guys use? I did quite a bit of research and settled on Dyna-gro; Foliage pro, Pro-tetk, Bloom plus I also add in GH floranectar for the sugars. I've also read some side by side journals with Dyna-gro vs other nutrient lines, specifically advanced nutrients, where dyna holds it's own if not outperforms. Seems to be a complete line with the micro and macro. I'd be open to advice on other nutrients though. There's so many out there, some higher prices and others where it seems as they split everything into as many bottles as possible. I don't know what's hype and what isn't. I've had great results with dyna-gro though.
I'm probably gonna give coco coir try. From what I understand, plants grow faster in hydro because the nutrients+oxygen are more readily available, the roots don't have to dig through the soil to find them, allowing that energy to go toward growth instead. In coco you get some of those benefits because it's lighter than soil, allowing more oxygen, and also retains water that's holdng the nutrients better(than soil)from what I understand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 23:10:04 GMT -5
Interestingly, I heard that the DEA either just made CBD illegal or is trying to.
That's SUPER fucked up, seeing as pure CBD can't even get you high and is just medicinally useful for about a billion things, (but then again weed shouldn't be illegal for getting people high in the first place...).
Just another way in which the fucked up DEA keeps waging their corrupt war on drugs.
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Post by Premier on Dec 17, 2016 23:38:26 GMT -5
Interestingly, I heard that the DEA either just made CBD illegal or is trying to. That's SUPER fucked up, seeing as pure CBD can't even get you high and is just medicinally useful for about a billion things, (but then again weed shouldn't be illegal for getting people high in the first place...). Just another way in which the fucked up DEA keeps waging their corrupt war on drugs. Job security.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 23:55:17 GMT -5
Interestingly, I heard that the DEA either just made CBD illegal or is trying to. That's SUPER fucked up, seeing as pure CBD can't even get you high and is just medicinally useful for about a billion things, (but then again weed shouldn't be illegal for getting people high in the first place...). Just another way in which the fucked up DEA keeps waging their corrupt war on drugs. Job security. What do you mean by that?
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Post by Premier on Dec 18, 2016 0:05:46 GMT -5
What do you mean by that? It's the DEA. They earn their living from the war on drugs. So making more substances illegal is kind of like securing their jobs.
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