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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 19:19:19 GMT -5
I am very curious to see what happens to the weed industry over the next few years. I personally hate weed and think it is going to do more for ruining our country than all other drugs combined, however it's going to be legal in 50 states eventually and there is no sense in fighting it. California is going to legalize it in November and there is already a ridiculous amount of infrastructure in place for commercial grow operations. Very large companies have been buying up property and green houses in anticipation of November, and even the Indians are putting huge money in to warehouses and outdoor grow properties. California is going to be producing an insane amount of weed starting almost immediately, and I am not sure what that is going to do to the market across the country... cause there will be a major surplus here. This has to be the most hillbilly thing ever said on this (or weekly) forum's history. lol You're better than this Kyle. Come to my area and you will see. Weed and it's cultivation has devastated the environment and the quality of life. There are towns in Humbolt, Mendocino and Trinity counties that are 100% driven by pot growing, which has resulted in disgusting living conditions, no education, and populations that are completely alienating themselves from the rest of the country. These are areas of beautiful redwood groves, great rivers, and some of the nicest scenery anywhere... which is now full of greenhouses, illegal grows, transients roaming everywhere, no tourism and the police/sheriff have been run out of the areas.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 19:22:50 GMT -5
Well....not everyone. In what could only be described as a shocking turn of events, we still haven't heard from Jackel. I know fuck-all about growing/trimming weed. If you have something I can do, or willing to train me, sure. I have never smoked weed before. I do believe that weed turns a lot of people in to lazy pieces of shit that are worthless in our society. This is a strain thing, and it isn't surprising this is the US's prevalent view of weed smokers, that hippy couch locked blahhh hungry munchie stoner thing. My theory, it is because your Indica strains were dominant in the US for a long time, and unlike most Sativa strains, they give that lazy couch locked effect . I'm assuming this is because they were easier to grow in secret being illegal in the US given the size difference. The Sativa strains are, at least in my experience, much more uplifting, energetic, you can function normally on it like super coffee sometimes. One of the big reasons for VA/AMA support of medical legalization is because Sativa heavy strains allow many PTSD sufferers to function normally. Thats why I said "not all or most, just a lot". You will never convince me that weed has any positive benefits to peoples lives. I am not saying it is a horrible thing that should be on par with cocaine or heroin... I am saying that there are no net benefits where you can say "weed made me a better person because". That being said I will vote to legalize it when prop 64 comes up in 30 days. I am tired of the laws not being enforced, so I figure at least with it being legal there will be some push to regulate things.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 16, 2016 19:40:57 GMT -5
I know fuck-all about growing/trimming weed. If you have something I can do, or willing to train me, sure. This is a strain thing, and it isn't surprising this is the US's prevalent view of weed smokers, that hippy couch locked blahhh hungry munchie stoner thing. My theory, it is because your Indica strains were dominant in the US for a long time, and unlike most Sativa strains, they give that lazy couch locked effect . I'm assuming this is because they were easier to grow in secret being illegal in the US given the size difference. The Sativa strains are, at least in my experience, much more uplifting, energetic, you can function normally on it like super coffee sometimes. One of the big reasons for VA/AMA support of medical legalization is because Sativa heavy strains allow many PTSD sufferers to function normally. Thats why I said "not all or most, just a lot". You will never convince me that weed has any positive benefits to peoples lives. I am not saying it is a horrible thing that should be on par with cocaine or heroin... I am saying that there are no net benefits where you can say "weed made me a better person because". That being said I will vote to legalize it when prop 64 comes up in 30 days. I am tired of the laws not being enforced, so I figure at least with it being legal there will be some push to regulate things. I would say you don't know that many PTSD sufferers who have tried it. Instead lets take a look at how it helps Parkinson's
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Post by TitoOrtizIsAPunk on Oct 16, 2016 20:04:11 GMT -5
Also the amount of of people who it's helping with seizures. There are many medical benefits, so many. He sounds so ignorant. Hell, even the DEA has a medical patent on marijuana, even after refusing to reschedule it...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 20:16:21 GMT -5
Why not isolate the beneficial aspect and make it strictly a medicine? Instead the weed proponents decide that because 1% if the time it is used for medicinal purposes it needs to be free for everyone to use.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 20:18:02 GMT -5
Thats why I said "not all or most, just a lot". You will never convince me that weed has any positive benefits to peoples lives. I am not saying it is a horrible thing that should be on par with cocaine or heroin... I am saying that there are no net benefits where you can say "weed made me a better person because". That being said I will vote to legalize it when prop 64 comes up in 30 days. I am tired of the laws not being enforced, so I figure at least with it being legal there will be some push to regulate things. I would say you don't know that many PTSD sufferers who have tried it. Instead lets take a look at how it helps Parkinson's PTSD? So getting high and temporarily numbing yourself to your inability to cope with war is a fix?
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Post by TitoOrtizIsAPunk on Oct 16, 2016 20:26:10 GMT -5
Why not isolate the beneficial aspect and make it strictly a medicine? Instead the weed proponents decide that because 1% if the time it is used for medicinal purposes it needs to be free for everyone to use. Do you hate alcohol as much as you hate weed?
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Post by Angelo on Oct 16, 2016 20:56:09 GMT -5
Why not isolate the beneficial aspect and make it strictly a medicine? Instead the weed proponents decide that because 1% if the time it is used for medicinal purposes it needs to be free for everyone to use. Because the aspect that makes it useful, also causes the other effects. To isolate that out would require a massive research undertaking to produce a synthetic drug with potential horrible side effects while costing 1000x as much as equivalent dose of weed. PTSD? So getting high and temporarily numbing yourself to your inability to cope with war is a fix? PTSD isn't limited to vets (though they make up the highest percentage of sufferers almost certainly). It isn't also something you just "cope" with. Legit PTSD episodes are literally uncontrollable. For many people when they suffer an episode actually black out. The right strains of marijuana have let people with PTSD live a "normal" life, reduce the frequency of episodes, and even increase the triggering effect needed for an episode.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 21:35:13 GMT -5
Why not isolate the beneficial aspect and make it strictly a medicine? Instead the weed proponents decide that because 1% if the time it is used for medicinal purposes it needs to be free for everyone to use. Do you hate alcohol as much as you hate weed? I don't hate weed and just stated that I was going to vote to legalize it... pay attention. I hate what weed cultivation has done to my area and part of state. I also hate that there has been no punishment for people that actively break the law. I also think that weed makes people lazy and lack motivation (sometimes) and is not good to have young people smoking it. Whether I like alcohol as much or less is irrelevant. Alcohol is legal, there is a very clearly defined federally run set of rules and restrictions for buying it, selling it and consuming it. Alcohol may be a very bad substance that is responsible for many bad things in society, but that doesn't mean we should just legalize another one without any plan to regulate it federally or test drivers for being impaired. I am voting to legalize it because I want less people to grow it in my area. If the state makes it legal it won't be so concentrated in my specific area. I also have many friends who regularly smoke, eat, vaporize it... and I do not judge them or care what they do. It is not coincidence though that the ones who use it are the same ones that sleep in, lay around and watch T.V. and are staring at their phones/computers half the day.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 21:37:11 GMT -5
Why not isolate the beneficial aspect and make it strictly a medicine? Instead the weed proponents decide that because 1% if the time it is used for medicinal purposes it needs to be free for everyone to use. Because the aspect that makes it useful, also causes the other effects. To isolate that out would require a massive research undertaking to produce a synthetic drug with potential horrible side effects while costing 1000x as much as equivalent dose of weed. PTSD? So getting high and temporarily numbing yourself to your inability to cope with war is a fix? PTSD isn't limited to vets (though they make up the highest percentage of sufferers almost certainly). It isn't also something you just "cope" with. Legit PTSD episodes are literally uncontrollable. For many people when they suffer an episode actually black out. The right strains of marijuana have let people with PTSD live a "normal" life, reduce the frequency of episodes, and even increase the triggering effect needed for an episode. That's fine, but weed doesn't do anything to fix the problem unless I am missing something. Weed is a masking drug that lets people calm down and feel better, however the underlying issues are still there and possibly even getting worse as they are not being addressed rather covered up.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 16, 2016 21:59:28 GMT -5
Because the aspect that makes it useful, also causes the other effects. To isolate that out would require a massive research undertaking to produce a synthetic drug with potential horrible side effects while costing 1000x as much as equivalent dose of weed. PTSD isn't limited to vets (though they make up the highest percentage of sufferers almost certainly). It isn't also something you just "cope" with. Legit PTSD episodes are literally uncontrollable. For many people when they suffer an episode actually black out. The right strains of marijuana have let people with PTSD live a "normal" life, reduce the frequency of episodes, and even increase the triggering effect needed for an episode. That's fine, but weed doesn't do anything to fix the problem unless I am missing something. Weed is a masking drug that lets people calm down and feel better, however the underlying issues are still there and possibly even getting worse as they are not being addressed rather covered up. You are missing something (and I don't mean offensively). We don't know how to cure PTSD, so we treat it. Chances are an eventual "cure" will be basically some sorta of radical drug regime combined with brain surgery or something. As for treating it though, there are literally dozens of different ways to treat it. And most don't work for most people, it a matter of finding the right treatment. HOWEVER, and this is the kicker. Marijuana has been shown to help far and above more than any other treatment (outside of weed + therapy combo). Not only in successful treatment in terms of controlling their PTSD, but also while avoiding most side effects of other treatments. Is it masking it? Yes, that is what treatment does to any non-curable disorder/disease. You mask it and control it. Is it getting worse? In general no, it will actually lessen itself over time, but still remain. Sorta like an alcoholic always being an alcoholic but after a long enough time it easier to deal with than it was at first. Can it be getting worse? Yes but in that case it would likely be getting worse with most other treatments and would have to find a a combination that works best for them or a different treatment. But in general, it the best hope, and it is good for us without PTSD too. A cheap, effective, safe way to reduce the chances of an episode around you or your kids?
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Post by TitoOrtizIsAPunk on Oct 16, 2016 22:17:14 GMT -5
I personally hate weed and think it is going to do more for ruining our country than all other drugs combined Here I thought I was paying attention... And you didn't answer my question... And you think it'll do worse than the 80 crack epidemic? Or the opiate problem that is going on now? Or the prescription pill problem?
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Post by floater on Oct 16, 2016 22:49:42 GMT -5
I think Kyles so disgusted by it because he lives in the main growing area. Northern California and southern Oregon grow the bulk of the weed in the black market nationwide. Most of the big growers in my area are very greedy and do not give back to the community. Most of them are also recent transplants from somewhere else. Local "rednecks" really do hate seeing their tight knit rural communities get shat apon by the pot growing industry. It is ugly, but there are also quite a few small mom and pops just doing enough to pay off their property. It's neat to see good people get ahead, but the majority are greedy, lazy slobs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 1:00:52 GMT -5
Because the aspect that makes it useful, also causes the other effects. To isolate that out would require a massive research undertaking to produce a synthetic drug with potential horrible side effects while costing 1000x as much as equivalent dose of weed. PTSD isn't limited to vets (though they make up the highest percentage of sufferers almost certainly). It isn't also something you just "cope" with. Legit PTSD episodes are literally uncontrollable. For many people when they suffer an episode actually black out. The right strains of marijuana have let people with PTSD live a "normal" life, reduce the frequency of episodes, and even increase the triggering effect needed for an episode. That's fine, but weed doesn't do anything to fix the problem unless I am missing something. Weed is a masking drug that lets people calm down and feel better, however the underlying issues are still there and possibly even getting worse as they are not being addressed rather covered up. I agree that pot isn't going to make a lazy oriented person any less lazy. And I agree that it doesn't help these types at all. I don't agree that it's a masking drug. Quite the contrary from my experience. But it affects everyone differently as well. Strains have so much to do with it as well. I rarely smoke indicas and I don't care for the oil, I'm more of a smoke as I go through the day. Some days I do, some days I dont. Most days I do though. Some of the most motivated and successful people I know are all day smokers. But some of the biggest dummies I know are all day smokers as well. I guess what I am saying is I think it really comes down to the individual. I understand your concern with wanting legalization because of the area you are in. When everyone is a fucking cowboy now and don't go that extra mile to at least try and cover up what they are doing...bad shit happens. Don't need to raise kids in that environment imo.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 9:27:17 GMT -5
I personally hate weed and think it is going to do more for ruining our country than all other drugs combined Here I thought I was paying attention... And you didn't answer my question... And you think it'll do worse than the 80 crack epidemic? Or the opiate problem that is going on now? Or the prescription pill problem? I don't hate weed for what it is... I hate what it has done to my area. I think people should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. I believe all drugs should be legal as long as their is testing for driving impairment with a threshold. The problem is it does affect other people in a very negative way. My position is to hope by legalizing it much of the growing will leave my area. My area is very expensive to live, so I believe once it becomes legal in CA it will be grown throughout the valley where property and homes are much cheaper. I believe weed will be worse than all other drugs because of the extremely high percentage of people that will use it regularly and the likelihood that the potency will continue to increase. Crack and opiates were used by such a small minority of our population that most people don't even know someone who used it. Prescription pills are a huge problem and will most likely continue to get way worse. I am not saying weed is as potent or destructive as other drugs when comparing them directly, I am saying that when you have 100 million people getting high every day, you have a major problem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 9:37:53 GMT -5
I think you'd be surprised by how many people you know in your day-to-day life that smoke and you have no idea. You're appealing to a small subset of the culture, where shitheads (who would be shitheads anyway) have taken up smoking. Look at how many people on this very forum smoke and lead productive lives.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 10:17:15 GMT -5
We've had more than 100 million people drinking alcohol every day for more than a century. It's been pretty well documented and accepted by most that alcohol is more damaging to individuals and society in general. One thing coming out of Colorado that I think holds a ton of merit is that drunk driving incidents have declined a lot since they legalized weed.
The real issue here, IMO, is that the government thought they could regulate this plant out of existence and totally failed. They fueled a black market that is valued at more than 1B a year. So much good could be done if those funds were in the legit market and subject to taxation. So I'm happy you're voting to pass the bill, because that will help clean shit up. You can't be a slovenly lazy shitbag and be running a company that has success. And if you are, you'll get put out of business by the people running things like a legit business.
And you know man, if you've got the money (which I believe you do) you could probably be one of the guys putting those lazy dirty shitbags out of business, and probably end up making more money than you do in construction.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 10:35:43 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 12:05:54 GMT -5
I think you'd be surprised by how many people you know in your day-to-day life that smoke and you have no idea. You're appealing to a small subset of the culture, where shitheads (who would be shitheads anyway) have taken up smoking. Look at how many people on this very forum smoke and lead productive lives. I am going to say 50% of the people in my area smoke weed at least once a week. It is definitely part of the culture here.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 12:17:49 GMT -5
And you're telling me the majority of them are worthless?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 12:19:27 GMT -5
We've had more than 100 million people drinking alcohol every day for more than a century. It's been pretty well documented and accepted by most that alcohol is more damaging to individuals and society in general. One thing coming out of Colorado that I think holds a ton of merit is that drunk driving incidents have declined a lot since they legalized weed. The real issue here, IMO, is that the government thought they could regulate this plant out of existence and totally failed. They fueled a black market that is valued at more than 1B a year. So much good could be done if those funds were in the legit market and subject to taxation. So I'm happy you're voting to pass the bill, because that will help clean shit up. You can't be a slovenly lazy shitbag and be running a company that has success. And if you are, you'll get put out of business by the people running things like a legit business. And you know man, if you've got the money (which I believe you do) you could probably be one of the guys putting those lazy dirty shitbags out of business, and probably end up making more money than you do in construction. I know, but I just can't do it. I have a 15,000 square foot steel frame building that is a shell warehouse with concrete slab, overhead crane, and 25' ceilings. I have been approached by 2 people offering to lease it for $25k a month and $22k a month. I know I am leaving a ton of money on the table but I just don't want to be part of something that I don't really believe in and also don't want to be connected to. I have a major hang-up with profiting on something that I don't agree with. I am not implying that I think what you are doing is wrong or immoral, it is just not for me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 13:34:07 GMT -5
Fair enough man.
I'm paying 22K a month on a place that is 1/5 the size. Now I think I'm getting hosed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 13:35:37 GMT -5
And you're telling me the majority of them are worthless? God damnit you pothead, pay attention. I said... "I am not saying all or most, just a lot". Yes, weed turns a lot of people into lazy stoners with no motivation. It also means that much of the population is driving, parenting, working high... which can't be good in my opinion. For those that bring up alcohol... just because one drug (alcohol) is legal and bad for our culture, doesn't mean we should just automatically make another one legal. Based on my logic, 2 legalized substances that have negative effects on our society are worse than just 1.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 13:40:33 GMT -5
Fair enough man. I'm paying 22K a month on a place that is 1/5 the size. Now I think I'm getting hosed. You can grow outside here 6-8 months a year, and there are grow houses and warehouses with commercial sized grow operations all over the place... which I think has driven down the cost of warehouse space. Still its hard to pass up $250k a year to do nothing. My $.02 is the money to be made is in the hydroponic supply side. There is very little overhead startup costs and you are not violating federal laws and the money can be deposited. I think you will find that many people will become small scale growers once the laws are relaxed, and they will mostly have to do it hydroponically/indoors in your area. We have about 15 Hydro supply stores in my small area, and they make a shitload of money.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 13:46:30 GMT -5
Yeah. The medical marijuana industry is thriving up here, and there are hydroponic stores EVERYWHERE. It's almost comical how many have sprung up and have pictures of tomatoes out front. We know damn well these people aren't growing tomatoes. And I think those guys are making a lot of money right now.
We don't have the same length of season for outdoor grows, so I think that probably explains why the sq. ft. charge is higher over here. It's more of a necessity to have an indoor facility in our climate.
250k a year is nothing to sniff at. But if you don't need it, I get where you're coming from. Kinda like if I owned a store I wouldn't sell cigs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 14:14:01 GMT -5
Yeah. The medical marijuana industry is thriving up here, and there are hydroponic stores EVERYWHERE. It's almost comical how many have sprung up and have pictures of tomatoes out front. We know damn well these people aren't growing tomatoes. And I think those guys are making a lot of money right now. We don't have the same length of season for outdoor grows, so I think that probably explains why the sq. ft. charge is higher over here. It's more of a necessity to have an indoor facility in our climate. 250k a year is nothing to sniff at. But if you don't need it, I get where you're coming from. Kinda like if I owned a store I wouldn't sell cigs. Not to mention we have a lot of vacant warehouse space because about 10 years ago there was a lot built for wine storage and they overestimated the demand. I didn't realize your area already had a lot of hydro stores up. That would be a good investment in an area where the market is just emerging. I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about, but I would guess that 80% - 90% of the weed in my area is grown outdoors or in greenhouses. CAMP usually tallies about 700k - 900k plants in my county and they estimate they get 5% - 7% a year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 15:01:36 GMT -5
I have a buddy I used to grow with that instead of going the dispensary route, started a hydro shop. His brother and him now own about 5 of them and do some kind of weekly podcast. They are doing very well and have been for some time now.
I think he could have kept on growing but having kids and a wife can change that. I think he just wanted to keep it safe and imo he made a good choice.
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Post by soundoff on Oct 17, 2016 15:46:43 GMT -5
so is Jackel working for someone or not?
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Post by Angelo on Oct 17, 2016 16:35:56 GMT -5
so is Jackel working for someone or not? If I can get a vehicle by the end of the month I'm working for Daywork. I'm going to be starting NIMS training soon, probably won't open up any jobs but, but it'll be good to have.
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Post by ocmmafan on Oct 17, 2016 16:40:08 GMT -5
so is Jackel working for someone or not? A resounding OF COURSE NOT.
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