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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 15:16:31 GMT -5
If this is true, I wish you the best.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 15:30:06 GMT -5
Congrats. What you gonna' be selling? Lies Ya beat me to it, goddamnit.
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Post by Angelo on Jun 14, 2017 15:54:41 GMT -5
Ya beat me to it, goddamnit. All the crackheads I know/knew are quick, and then there is you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 17:37:41 GMT -5
Ya beat me to it, goddamnit. All the crackheads I know/knew are quick, and then there is you. This crackhead didn't didn't sit on his ass and let his girl take care of him, as if he were an overgrown child, and live a fantasy life fueled by lies and make-believe whimsy as he endlessly trolls an internet forum pretending to know something about everything.
Instead I served in the Army, served honorably, paid my own way through a juco program that led to a 33 year drafting & design career working with engineers in the heavy equipment, automotive and aerospace industries, got married and raised a stepdaughter, made my parents proud and my wife a happy woman. I own a condo, a retirement account and a clear sense of who I am. You own nothing but your fantasies and endless excuses for failure.
If you EVER accomplish anything close to what I (or many others) have done, it'll be a certified miracle. You're a delusional lazy bastard with a victim complex, nothing more. Now go get drunk so we can enjoy more of your nocturnal inebriated posts.
Oh, and I rarely smoke ANYTHING anymore, except on the third Wednesday of each month when I get my SS check. I still imbibe that sweet-smelling (like nail polish?) mixture one or two days a month....if you don't like it, you can suck my balls. While you're down there, clean up those dingleberries too.
No doubt that's the source of side "income" you claim to have anyway.
Go ahead, have a drink. It kills brain cells, so keep it up. Judging from your apparent tenuous relationship with reality, I'd say it's likely you're well on your way to that "neuroplasticity" treatment you like to believe you understand.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 13:51:44 GMT -5
From the June 16 Detroit Free Press:
DETAINED IRAQI IMMIGRANT CAN STAY UNTIL AUG. 10
by Niraj Warikoo
"One of the 114 Iraqi immigrants arrested in Michigan on Sunday has been granted temporary relief and can stay in the U.S. until at least Aug. 10, his attorney said.
Haydar Butris, 38, of Sterling Heights, was detained by federal immigration agents as part of a sweep of Iraqi nationals with criminal records. They were part of almost 200 Iraqi nationals arrested by U.S. Immigration Customs and Enforcement (ICE) nationally in recent weeks whom family members fear will be deported back to Iraq.
The attorney for Butris, Clarence Dass, said that ICE has used discretion to allow Butris to remain in the U.S. until a hearing ICE set for Aug. 10, giving him time to appeal his case in courts. Dass hopes others will be granted similar relief as families worry about deportation.
"I'm thrilled because it shows that our government is using discretion and not deporting people indiscriminately," Dass told the Free Press. "I'm hoping they are taking into consideration the potential death sentence that could occur if people are deported."
Butris, along with many other Iraqi immigrants detained, is currently at an immigration detention center in Youngstown, Ohio. Butris, whose family was featured in a Detroit Free Press story earlier this week, has three children and worries who will provide for them if he is deported.
He is Christian and his family is concerned he would be targeted in Iraq, where his religious group is a minority.
Dass, who represents 20 of the Iraqis detained, said that Butris is the first of his clients to be granted a hearing.
Born in Iraq, Butris immigranted to the U.S. as teenager along with his parents. In 1998, he was arrested for possessing several pounds of marijuana. He pleaded guilty in 1999.
Under the Trump administration, legal immigrants with criminal records are being targeted for deportation.
Dass had filed earlier this week an emergency motion to get Butris a hearing.
Dass is also seeking to reopen his criminal case in Oakland County, saying that Butris and others are facing double jeopardy, meaning they are being punished twice for the same crime. He wants to withdraw Butris' plea from 1999. He said there is no transcripts of the proceedings in Butris' case and so he is entitled to a new trial under law.
ICE said it arrested the Iraqi detainees after the Iraqi government agreed in March to accept the Iraqi nationals with criminal records. Previously, they had resisted attempts to deport them.
In other developments Thursday, Chaldean leaders announced they are planning to rally at 3 p.m. Friday outside the federal McNamara Building in downtown Detroit along with U.S. Reps. Brenda Lawrence, D-Southfield, and Sander Levin, D-Royal Oak, in protest of the Iraqi arrests.
Also Thursday, attorneys with ACLU Michigan filed a lawsuit in Detroit against the detentions. Attorneys with the Michigan Immigrants Rights Center, Miller Canfield law firm in Detroit, and University of Michigan professor Margo Schlanger joined in the lawsuit, which calls for a halt to any possible deportations.
“Not only is it immoral to send people to a country where they are likely to be violently persecuted, it expressly violates United States and international law and treaties,” Kary Moss, executive director for the ACLU of Michigan, said in a statement. “We are hoping that the courts will recognize the extreme danger that deportation to Iraq would pose for these individuals. Our immigration policy shouldn’t amount to a death sentence for anyone.”
Also this week, six U.S. House representatives from Michigan — five Democrats and one Republican — sent a letter to Department of Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, expressing concern about the detentions of Iraqi immigrants. They asked Kelly for a copy of the agreement the U.S. had with Iraq over the Iraqis detained."
Contact Niraj Warikoo: nwarikoo@freepress.com or 313-223-4792. Follow him on Twitter @nwarikoo.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 14:19:27 GMT -5
^^^
Okay, Vale, now I AM finding humor in this story. And justifiably so.
I am attempting (unsuccessfully) to stifle laughter at the claims made above by Clarence Dass and Kary Moss above....they're the two mouthpieces quoted in the article raising irresponsible and dubious "issues" for the gullible press. Potential death sentence? Mr. Dass has likely spun that allegation from whole cloth for the reporters in front of him.
Butris and other detainees are facing "double jeopardy"....being punished twice for the same crime? LOL to infinity. If that were true, then every single person convicted of a drug crime, domestic violence, immigration-law violations, or other offenses such as drunk driving are ALSO suffering double jeopardy....because all face additional penalties after their fines or jail time. Specifically, loss of gun-ownership rights, rights to vote, etc. Oh, yeah, deportation too, for non-citizens!
Dass wants to re-open Butris's criminal case from 1999? On the grounds that "there is no transcript"? (Translation? "I didn't look too hard for one".)
Good luck with THAT one, counselor....
As for Ms. Moss, well, she is an ACLU lawyer. Enough said. The ACLU does a LOT of good work in my opinion. This nonsense isn't among that work, again, in my opinion.
(A) Maybe Mr. Dass is doing groundbreaking legal work that will essentially invalidate U.S. immigration-law penalties.
(B) Or, maybe he's just another by-the-numbers legal hack going through the motions while defending immigrants guilty of violations subject to deportation, attempting to sway the public through manipulation of compliant, biased media.
His court-approved payment -- courtesy of U.S. taxpayers, possibly -- will show up in his account promptly, though, either way.
My money is on (B).
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Post by Premier on Jun 16, 2017 14:39:50 GMT -5
Sucks that he is a Christian. They are getting slaughtered in the middle east. And if I remember correctly, Trump has mentioned the horrors Christians are going through in that part of the world.
That said, you got caught with several POUNDS of weed. Not a couple of joints, not even a couple of ounces, but fucking pounds. He had to know that shit was illegal to carry weight like that. So yeah, he broke the law. See ya'.
However, i would't mind a longer prison sentence here in the states and then maybe amnesty when he gets out based on religious persecution.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:06:51 GMT -5
Sucks that he is a Christian. They are getting slaughtered in the middle east. And if I remember correctly, Trump has mentioned the horrors Christians are going through in that part of the world. That said, you got caught with several POUNDS of weed. Not a couple of joints, not even a couple of ounces, but fucking pounds. He had to know that shit was illegal to carry weight like that. So yeah, he broke the law. See ya'. However, i would't mind a longer prison sentence here in the states and then maybe amnesty when he gets out based on religious persecution. He is being deported to Iraq. As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, we have installed a democracy there. Saddam's torture chambers for political opponents, critics or others he didn't like are a thing of the past.
It's true that Chaldeans face serious discrimination over there....it's why the Detroit area has a large contingent of them. But that's the detainees' problem now, not ours. These people had opportunities to become citizens, which would have eliminated the "peril" they now claim to face. Too bad.
Somehow I STILL don't believe their "deportee reception centers" look anything like this:
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 16, 2017 23:00:16 GMT -5
Once again, why havent our jails been purged of illegals? Id like to see that happen first and foremost. if we're talking mexicans, south americans, canadians, i'd rather they sit and rot in our jails for the duration of their sentences and then deported after. it's far too easy to just jump the border and come right back, basically not serving any of their sentence. for immigrants from far away lands, sure deport them. as a tax payer, i don't mind paying for illegals to be housed in our jails for the crimes they commit (if they are north or south american suspects).
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Post by Angelo on Jun 16, 2017 23:30:18 GMT -5
Once again, why havent our jails been purged of illegals? Id like to see that happen first and foremost. if we're talking mexicans, south americans, canadians, i'd rather they sit and rot in our jails for the duration of their sentences and then deported after. it's far too easy to just jump the border and come right back, basically not serving any of their sentence. for immigrants from far away lands, sure deport them. as a tax payer, i don't mind paying for illegals to be housed in our jails for the crimes they commit (if they are north or south american suspects). It's because if you deport them, the prison owners make less money.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 17, 2017 2:13:40 GMT -5
i don't care. let the prisons make all the money they want. i'm ok with that. what i'm not ok with is deporting felons who are back within a week.
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Post by matt on Jun 17, 2017 12:38:56 GMT -5
Once again, why havent our jails been purged of illegals? Id like to see that happen first and foremost. if we're talking mexicans, south americans, canadians, i'd rather they sit and rot in our jails for the duration of their sentences and then deported after. it's far too easy to just jump the border and come right back, basically not serving any of their sentence. for immigrants from far away lands, sure deport them. as a tax payer, i don't mind paying for illegals to be housed in our jails for the crimes they commit (if they are north or south american suspects). The violent convicts, and convicts that have caused harm to an another individual should definitely serve out their sentences before being deported, I agree. Criminals should be punished. First and fore most. But unless there's a wall, and a better coordinated effort between the departments, then you're right, these criminals will just continue to filter back into the states and continue to commit more crimes and keep the wheel spinning... I guess it's more profitable to treat a cancer than to cure a cancer...
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Post by Angelo on Jun 17, 2017 13:12:15 GMT -5
i don't care. let the prisons make all the money they want. i'm ok with that. what i'm not ok with is deporting felons who are back within a week. For every roughly 2 that we were to deport immediately instead of keeping in prison, we could pay the salary+bennies of another border agent, making it harder to come back in. That's not even counting the amount we potentially end up saving in a decrease of tax-funded court fees from the issues overcrowding and undertraining cause. Hell if you deported the already flagged, and the ones who are likely to be flagged in the federal system alone, not counting private or state prisons and jails, you could afford to send almost 150 thousand people to college for all 4 years. You are talking about on the federal non-private non-state side alone, being able to afford about 30 thousand new border agents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 13:24:20 GMT -5
In regards to my question, I believe oc broke it down about as good as anyone could have.
I also don't disagree with phreak that if we just let then go that it will be easy to just come right back in.
While I'm not a pro wall person, I do believe that we need to protect our borders. Having then manned and manned without said agents having their hands tied is the direction that I'd like to see our country go.
And I do agree that the sentences need to be served. But upon said sentences being served, I'd prefer to deport immmediately.
I've always said that if you were a pregnant woman in TJ and didn't try to at least get over here, you were not trying hard enough for your child. I still believe that to the fullest and it's really hard to argue against that. So while I don't blame a single person for coming over here to make things better for themselves and their family...if it wasn't so easy, so many wouldn't have been successful in doing so. And we wouldn't have some of the issues we have today.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 17, 2017 18:00:21 GMT -5
sorry, but it is that easy. an incident from my area: look up kathryn steinle. she was shot and killed by an illegal who had been deported 5 times. FIVE TIMES! our current system is not working. i am a wall guy. if we built the wall, then i'd be all in favor of deporting illegal criminals and not housing them in our jails/prisons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 12:09:39 GMT -5
First off, I said I didn't disagree with you. 2nd, no its not that cut and dry.
And yes, bad people exist in this world.
A wall works both ways. I'm not with that. A manned border creates jobs and keeps people out. Don't need to waste a bunch of money on something people will eventuallu burrow under or figure a way over. For all that money, I'd rather outfit a large group of agents with all the equipment they need to take care of things properly.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 18, 2017 13:24:58 GMT -5
First off, I said I didn't disagree with you. 2nd, no its not that cut and dry. And yes, bad people exist in this world. A wall works both ways. I'm not with that. A manned border creates jobs and keeps people out. Don't need to waste a bunch of money on something people will eventuallu burrow under or figure a way over. For all that money, I'd rather outfit a large group of agents with all the equipment they need to take care of things properly. ah ok. caught that now. the cost of manning the border effectively versus the building of a wall are interesting. i would assume over a long enough time line, obviously the wall would be more cost effective as personnel costs of federal employees is quite high. the effectiveness of the two is what's in doubt. the problem with saying "just hire more people" is that sure, you could hop on that bandwagon initially. what happens 5, 10, 15 years from now when they're looking to trim the federal budget? yep. reduce personnel. once the wall is built, it's not going anywhere (of course it will need some maintenance 10-15-20 years down the road).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 13:40:57 GMT -5
I feel that you need the border to be manned. What's the point of putting up some wall if people figure out how to go under or over? Just a waste of money. A huge waste. Sections already have some type of fencing that allows animals to migrate around and what not. Obviously we need more.
I feel that a literal wall is just a huge sin of opression. It ruins the landscape and as you stated, will require continual maintenance for the life of it.
I'd rather pay for trained and qualified agents. A wall without people to man it is just a piece in an obstacle course.
I think of the wall as not as not a literal brick structure, but more of combined effort of technology, manpower and the enforcement of laws.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 18, 2017 14:04:44 GMT -5
of course you'll still need personnel to man the wall, but obviously much, much less. cameras, drones, etc could handle most of the surveillance and you'd just need agents to bust those that did find a way over or under.
i don't give a shit about virtue signalers who would view it as a "sin of oppression". i care about having secure borders.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 15:48:39 GMT -5
You ever been to the border?
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 18, 2017 23:55:29 GMT -5
nope. don't plan to either.
but i hope you don't plan on springing the logical fallacy of an argument from authority...
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Post by slaytan on Jun 19, 2017 5:24:39 GMT -5
I feel that you need the border to be manned. What's the point of putting up some wall if people figure out how to go under or over? Just a waste of money. A huge waste. Sections already have some type of fencing that allows animals to migrate around and what not. Obviously we need more. I feel that a literal wall is just a huge sin of opression. It ruins the landscape and as you stated, will require continual maintenance for the life of it. I'd rather pay for trained and qualified agents. A wall without people to man it is just a piece in an obstacle course. I think of the wall as not as not a literal brick structure, but more of combined effort of technology, manpower and the enforcement of laws. I would rather a "virtual" wall of drones (and snipers, frankly) as well, so as not to interfere with animals. But here's the thing about a wall: if a wall is built, the next liberal in office cannot simply make it vanish with a snap of the finger, like he can make drones and agents disappear. Once the wall is built, it's there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 11:27:23 GMT -5
nope. don't plan to either. but i hope you don't plan on springing the logical fallacy of an argument from authority... You should. Everyone should. Especially if you want to talk about building a wall The area's that I am familiar with are not just some kind of cartoon depicted desert with a cactus every few hundred feet. There is irrigation and forestry. It is also easily flooded during the rainy seasons. It isn't an area that is easily fragmented. There are bobcat, deer, elk, etc. There is a river running through. A simple brick wall simply isn't going to cut it. You should also see the immediate dideference in quality of life the moment you touch down on the other side of the border. Seeing the reality of things vs reading about them online seems to go quite a long ways. Now, what would we do about immigrants coming in through the gulf of mexico, the Pacific and the atlantic? Sea walls? How do we stop the influx of Koreans that come here? Or do you believe it's only Hispanics that are flowing in here like wildfire? In an earlier post I believe you described this as being "easy". It's far easy from my friend.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 11:28:58 GMT -5
I feel that you need the border to be manned. What's the point of putting up some wall if people figure out how to go under or over? Just a waste of money. A huge waste. Sections already have some type of fencing that allows animals to migrate around and what not. Obviously we need more. I feel that a literal wall is just a huge sin of opression. It ruins the landscape and as you stated, will require continual maintenance for the life of it. I'd rather pay for trained and qualified agents. A wall without people to man it is just a piece in an obstacle course. I think of the wall as not as not a literal brick structure, but more of combined effort of technology, manpower and the enforcement of laws. I would rather a "virtual" wall of drones (and snipers, frankly) as well, so as not to interfere with animals. But here's the thing about a wall: if a wall is built, the next liberal in office cannot simply make it vanish with a snap of the finger, like he can make drones and agents disappear. Once the wall is built, it's there. Or, someone could just spend the money to tear down the wall. I'm not opposed to the sniper idea btw.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 11:33:16 GMT -5
^^^
Okay, Vale, now I AM finding humor in this story. And justifiably so.
I am attempting (unsuccessfully) to stifle laughter at the claims made above by Clarence Dass and Kary Moss above....they're the two mouthpieces quoted in the article raising irresponsible and dubious "issues" for the gullible press. Potential death sentence? Mr. Dass has likely spun that allegation from whole cloth for the reporters in front of him.
Butris and other detainees are facing "double jeopardy"....being punished twice for the same crime? LOL to infinity. If that were true, then every single person convicted of a drug crime, domestic violence, immigration-law violations, or other offenses such as drunk driving are ALSO suffering double jeopardy....because all face additional penalties after their fines or jail time. Specifically, loss of gun-ownership rights, rights to vote, etc. Oh, yeah, deportation too, for non-citizens!
Dass wants to re-open Butris's criminal case from 1999? On the grounds that "there is no transcript"? (Translation? "I didn't look too hard for one".)
Good luck with THAT one, counselor....
As for Ms. Moss, well, she is an ACLU lawyer. Enough said. The ACLU does a LOT of good work in my opinion. This nonsense isn't among that work, again, in my opinion.
(A) Maybe Mr. Dass is doing groundbreaking legal work that will essentially invalidate U.S. immigration-law penalties.
(B) Or, maybe he's just another by-the-numbers legal hack going through the motions while defending immigrants guilty of violations subject to deportation, attempting to sway the public through manipulation of compliant, biased media.
His court-approved payment -- courtesy of U.S. taxpayers, possibly -- will show up in his account promptly, though, either way.
My money is on (B).
Personally, I don't know if it's true or not. I have no idea about that part of the world and can only take what I read as truth regarding it. You will rarely see me comment on middle east and one of the reasons is because I've never seen the place, not familiar with any of it. I don't know that I buy that he is going back to a death sentence. If the guy got caught with drugs, adios amigo. If you want to come here, you gotta fly straight and narrow.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 19, 2017 12:18:25 GMT -5
nope. don't plan to either. but i hope you don't plan on springing the logical fallacy of an argument from authority... You should. Everyone should. Especially if you want to talk about building a wall The area's that I am familiar with are not just some kind of cartoon depicted desert with a cactus every few hundred feet. There is irrigation and forestry. It is also easily flooded during the rainy seasons. It isn't an area that is easily fragmented. There are bobcat, deer, elk, etc. There is a river running through. A simple brick wall simply isn't going to cut it. You should also see the immediate dideference in quality of life the moment you touch down on the other side of the border. Seeing the reality of things vs reading about them online seems to go quite a long ways. Now, what would we do about immigrants coming in through the gulf of mexico, the Pacific and the atlantic? Sea walls? How do we stop the influx of Koreans that come here? Or do you believe it's only Hispanics that are flowing in here like wildfire? In an earlier post I believe you described this as being "easy". It's far easy from my friend. and it's far from hard as the mentally ill guy who killed Kate Steinely managed to come over illegally 6 times. the race of the illegals has literally nothing to do with it. when you try and throw that in there it's just short of a concession of defeat. i don't want anyone coming here illegally. whether it be europeans, asians, hispanics, canadians, whatever. these are the facts from 2012, the most recent i found. illegal immigrants by country: 1. Mexico 6,720,000 2. El Salvador 690,000 3. Guatemala 560,000 4. Honduras 360,000 5. Philippines 310,000 6. India 260,000 7. Korea 230,000 8. China 210,000 9. Ecuador 170,000 10. Vietnam 160,000 now tell me who's flowing in here like wildfire. immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/US
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 13:04:19 GMT -5
They still all add up.
I care more about the ecosystem in that area than I do about whoever it is you keep harping on. Bad people exist. Bad things happen. I'm sorry if maybe you knew the lady or the story on the Internet struck a nerve. But the fact remains is that if it were that easy, it would have been solved decades ago.
Edit: Also, the fact that you say you never plan on seeing the border. It says a lot. Who doesn't want to explore and see what is out there in the world? I don't understand that line of thinking at all.
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Post by mmaphreak on Jun 19, 2017 13:11:39 GMT -5
it's about bang for the buck. no, we're not putting walls up around the coasts because those numbers show where our resources should be allocated. i care much less about the ecosystem in that area than i do about the health of our economy and the burden that illegal immigration puts on it, let alone the ancillary issues that come with it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 13:16:13 GMT -5
I'll put wildlife and the ecosystem over money. Especially when there are options.
But I see we are not headed to anything but meaningless back and forth. I see where your head is at.
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Post by ocmmafan on Jun 19, 2017 13:30:49 GMT -5
The vast, VAST majority of negative issues we have from illegal immigration stems from our southern neighbors. The bend people try to make when discussing illegal immigration is that it is not just mexicans and central americans. Well, while true, the most obvious problems stem from ease of access to our border and that amounts to the largest percentage. If we deport someone to Korea or the Philippines, trust me it's a huge fucking pain in the ass for them to secure a new visa, leave their country and find their way back here again. It's expensive and they have to find a way out of their country to get to mexico or canada to get in here. Deport a mexican and they are back tomorrow. Deport a central american and it may take them a week. Why? Proximity.
Improving and securing a physical barrier IS an absolute must. I don't care if they doubled or tripled CBP tomorrow, people would still come in. Trying to use people and technology is always going to be reactive law enforcement. A physical barrier will be unpassable by most and limit the opportunity for many to actually walk into the country.
If coyotes are breaking into your yard and eating your chickens, how would you stop them? A fence.
I see zero downside to improving and securing the physical barrier. It DOES work in areas where we have spent money and repaired it. Who can a wall offend? The people trying to sneak in the country? Who cares?
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