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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 12:08:03 GMT -5
They aren't taking anyone's guns over this. Let's put that part of the conversation out to pasture. What I want to know his how he got these guns inside. Betting he put them together in his room and they were disassembled in his luggage. I have a friend who is a total gun-nut. He's brought some pretty amazing firepower in a Halliburton Zero to me over the years. I don't think they are going to either. Was just one of the first things to pop up in my mind this morning when I saw all this. How could it NOT be one of the first things you think? EVERY SINGLE TIME something like this happens the left goes into tactical hysteria mode and starts screaming the same bullshit about "gun control". They politicize tragedy like no one else, because they truly believe "gun control" would have prevented this. They truly believe that MORE government = MORE peace. I do not understand why they believe that, and don't think I will ever be able to. But there is no question that this will be another political talking point for the left who hate every single aspect of freedom but can't ever admit it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 12:27:34 GMT -5
I don't think they are going to either. Was just one of the first things to pop up in my mind this morning when I saw all this. How could it NOT be one of the first things you think? EVERY SINGLE TIME something like this happens the left goes into tactical hysteria mode and starts screaming the same bullshit about "gun control". They politicize tragedy like no one else, because they truly believe "gun control" would have prevented this. They truly believe that MORE government = MORE peace. I do not understand why they believe that, and don't think I will ever be able to. But there is no question that this will be another political talking point for the left who hate every single aspect of freedom but can't ever admit it. Well said. Have you seen the HRC tweet this morning yet? Prepare yourself if you do go look for it.
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Post by Baph on Oct 2, 2017 13:44:48 GMT -5
It's the same basic issues, though . . . just repackaged into different emotional language for each event. But it's always, at it's core, the same thing.
Life is fucking wild, give us more power and we can protect you.
Healthcare Hurricanes Wars Shooters Unemployment Car Drives into Crowd Can't Afford College Factory Shut Down
Zoom out, squint your eyes a bit, it's all the same three chords. Life is chaos and if you yield to us all power and authority, we will protect you from the storm.
Like it's just that fucking simple, right. Just that easy. We will work toward a non-partisan solution.
Oh? Really? These fucking buffoons in DC who gave us the DMV and public schools and the post office and the most complicated tax code in human history and rampant wire tapping and a 16-year perma war in Iraq with no end in sight . . . these incompetent pretentious narcissists are going to suddenly lay a golden egg and solve gun violence? Based on what previous successes am I supposed to buy that? They couldn't even get the Obamacare website to fucking work.
Saying we will tolerate any level of violence is like saying we will tolerate any level of winter.
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Post by Tapout on Oct 2, 2017 14:46:19 GMT -5
Zoom out, squint your eyes a bit, it's all the same three chords. Life is chaos and if you yield to us all power and authority, we will protect you from the storm. Chaos, is a ladder.....
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Post by Angelo on Oct 2, 2017 15:02:30 GMT -5
Tom Petty is brain dead
edit: nvm they took him of life support, wrong thread now
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Post by PatSox on Oct 2, 2017 15:11:21 GMT -5
Tom Petty is brain dead edit: nvm they took him of life support, wrong thread now Oh my gay god!!!! We're blaming Trump for Tom Petty now??? Come on Angelo. Don't do me like that
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 0:18:46 GMT -5
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 0:33:24 GMT -5
I had to stop and breath when I read "The right to self-determination is enshrined in international law". Movies and TV like to spout the phrase "international law" but in reality there is no such thing. "International Law" is less binding than a handshake agreement. It is literally the honour system.
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Post by slaytan on Oct 3, 2017 7:33:12 GMT -5
I had to stop and breath when I read "The right to self-determination is enshrined in international law". Movies and TV like to spout the phrase "international law" but in reality there is no such thing. "International Law" is less binding than a handshake agreement. It is literally the honour system. . "International law" would describe the Geneva convention, which boils down to "if you lose a war, we get to hang your soldiers"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 9:54:57 GMT -5
And here comes the talk about gun control.
Too soon imo. Too soon.
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 11:34:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 14:54:10 GMT -5
And this is why our citizens have guns...
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 3, 2017 16:04:32 GMT -5
And this is why our citizens have guns... I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 16:28:40 GMT -5
And this is why our citizens have guns... I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest. Do you think if cops are beating you, taking away your right to vote for no other reason than the government told them to, that people wouldn't turn their arms on police? Do you wait for the internment camps to start being used before you shoot someone?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 16:30:55 GMT -5
Also.... Jas Piers Morgan always been conservative or just liberal on certain issues like gun control?
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 16:58:59 GMT -5
Also.... Jas Piers Morgan always been conservative or just liberal on certain issues like gun control? He's a European conservative, so liberal by our standards.
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Post by Comrade Question on Oct 3, 2017 17:50:36 GMT -5
And this is why our citizens have guns... I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest. Has it happened on a large scale? No, but aren't Ruby Ridge and those Oregon dick-holes from a couple years examples of armed citizens standing up to law enforcement?
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 17:57:00 GMT -5
I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest. Has it happened on a large scale? No, but aren't Ruby Ridge and those Oregon dick-holes from a couple years examples of armed citizens standing up to law enforcement? Ummm the revolutionary war isn't large scale?
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 3, 2017 18:30:15 GMT -5
I'm talking more current, with all the talks about "why we need guns"... Those examples are perfect examples of why it won't ever be on a large scale. The opposition would get squashed... Immediately!
I just don't think the organization exists to ever be able to take in the government at this point.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 18:49:24 GMT -5
I'm talking more current, with all the talks about "why we need guns"... Those examples are perfect examples of why it won't ever be on a large scale. The opposition would get squashed... Immediately! I just don't think the organization exists to ever be able to take in the government at this point. I agree that the likelihood of of enough organization for a legit coup d'état is damn slim, but as long as the 2nd amendment stands, and states take a strong stance in regards to it, it is a possibility. And maybe it the optimist in me, or the part in me that hates that statistics is a house of cards on thin ice, or the pessimist in me that thinks the government is becoming too encroaching... but that possibility needs to remain and needs to be entrenched. A lot of people will cite Posse Comitatus as why we stand a chance, because many of us are better prepared than the domestic police forces, but honestly is is a thin piece of legislation that has exemptions coming out the ass. However, as recent events showed us, I think if it comes down to it, the government wouldn't be able to rely on police/military or even their normal support so I honestly wouldn't be surprised at a civil war
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Post by Baph on Oct 3, 2017 22:39:29 GMT -5
And this is why our citizens have guns... I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest. We already have examples of this happening, or coming very close to happening. Some dipshit just shot up the republican softball practice in DC not 3-4 months ago. Clive Bundy came really close. Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The police shootings in Dallas this year would qualify. There were other police ambushes and killings in Louisiana and California this year at the heigh of the BLM fervor. Though less clear cut, Tim McVeigh's actions could be classified as retaliation toward the government (for Waco and Ruby Ridge). The American Indian Movement (AIM) had a standoff with the FBI that involved fire fights and deaths. The Tulsa Race Riots. This is just off the top of my head. Then there's the whole Revolutionary War (literally citizens fighting off the government) the Civil War and Lincoln's subsequent assassination, etc. The fact that, if pushed hard enough, people will respond and respond violently is not even up for debate. And yes, in 2017, a true revolt would very likely not be purely military/militia, but multi faceted involving IT, media, supply chain, etc. One obvious weapon is simply withholding taxes. There's also a war for hearts and minds that would unfold wherein massive, massive defections would occur in all ranks of police and military and intelligence if the government openly turned on it's citizenry. I think you greatly underestimate the fragility of society.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 3, 2017 22:43:15 GMT -5
I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest. We already have examples of this happening, or coming very close to happening. Clive Bundy came really close. Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The police shootings in Dallas this year would qualify. Though less clear cut, Tim McVeigh's actions could be classified as retaliation toward the government (for Waco and Ruby Ridge). The American Indian Movement (AIM) had a standoff with the FBI that involved fire fights. This is just off the top of my head. Then there's the whole Revolutionary War (literally citizens fighting off the government) the Civil War, etc. The fact that, if pushed hard enough, people will respond and respond violently is not even up for debate. Shit I remember the standoff with the Native Americans in early 90s in NY. Another week or two that woulda blown up nationally.
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 3, 2017 23:01:53 GMT -5
I seriously doubt there would be an instance the citizens would ever use their weapons on law enforcement or the government in any protest. We already have examples of this happening, or coming very close to happening. Some dipshit just shot up the republican softball practice in DC not 3-4 months ago. Clive Bundy came really close. Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The police shootings in Dallas this year would qualify. There were other police ambushes and killings in Louisiana and California this year at the heigh of the BLM fervor. Though less clear cut, Tim McVeigh's actions could be classified as retaliation toward the government (for Waco and Ruby Ridge). The American Indian Movement (AIM) had a standoff with the FBI that involved fire fights and deaths. The Tulsa Race Riots. This is just off the top of my head. Then there's the whole Revolutionary War (literally citizens fighting off the government) the Civil War and Lincoln's subsequent assassination, etc. The fact that, if pushed hard enough, people will respond and respond violently is not even up for debate. And yes, in 2017, a true revolt would very likely not be purely military/militia, but multi faceted involving IT, media, supply chain, etc. One obvious weapon is simply withholding taxes. There's also a war for hearts and minds that would unfold wherein massive, massive defections would occur in all ranks of police and military and intelligence if the government openly turned on it's citizenry. I think you greatly underestimate the fragility of society. I'm talking currently, so not the Revolutionary War or Civil War. I'm talking armed people in numbers like Spain/Catalonia. I'm talking millions! Although I think the 2 amendment fight would be the closest thing we will see to it if they try and take your guns. The government now has way to much power and firepower in my opinion. So we'll agree to disagree.
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Post by Baph on Oct 4, 2017 12:16:41 GMT -5
We already have examples of this happening, or coming very close to happening. Some dipshit just shot up the republican softball practice in DC not 3-4 months ago. Clive Bundy came really close. Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge. The police shootings in Dallas this year would qualify. There were other police ambushes and killings in Louisiana and California this year at the heigh of the BLM fervor. Though less clear cut, Tim McVeigh's actions could be classified as retaliation toward the government (for Waco and Ruby Ridge). The American Indian Movement (AIM) had a standoff with the FBI that involved fire fights and deaths. The Tulsa Race Riots. This is just off the top of my head. Then there's the whole Revolutionary War (literally citizens fighting off the government) the Civil War and Lincoln's subsequent assassination, etc. The fact that, if pushed hard enough, people will respond and respond violently is not even up for debate. And yes, in 2017, a true revolt would very likely not be purely military/militia, but multi faceted involving IT, media, supply chain, etc. One obvious weapon is simply withholding taxes. There's also a war for hearts and minds that would unfold wherein massive, massive defections would occur in all ranks of police and military and intelligence if the government openly turned on it's citizenry. I think you greatly underestimate the fragility of society. I'm talking currently, so not the Revolutionary War or Civil War. I'm talking armed people in numbers like Spain/Catalonia. I'm talking millions! Although I think the 2 amendment fight would be the closest thing we will see to it if they try and take your guns. The government now has way to much power and firepower in my opinion. So we'll agree to disagree. I will agree you haven't though this through. 50% of the military would defect immediately upon such an order. How old are you?
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Post by Baph on Oct 4, 2017 12:16:51 GMT -5
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Post by HumanAgent on Oct 4, 2017 13:55:41 GMT -5
I'm talking currently, so not the Revolutionary War or Civil War. I'm talking armed people in numbers like Spain/Catalonia. I'm talking millions! Although I think the 2 amendment fight would be the closest thing we will see to it if they try and take your guns. The government now has way to much power and firepower in my opinion. So we'll agree to disagree. I will agree you haven't though this through. 50% of the military would defect immediately upon such an order. How old are you? How did you come up with that number? You're reaching with that statement and number. The examples you pointed out with Ruby Ridge proves my point that it was squashed almost immediately. While Tim may have meant to retaliate, not one person thought what he did was OK, especially to get behind his cause. Most certainly not to raise their arms against the government. I don't think the people have it in them... It's my opinion and your made believe number doesn't change it.
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Post by Baph on Oct 4, 2017 14:19:21 GMT -5
I will agree you haven't though this through. 50% of the military would defect immediately upon such an order. How old are you? How did you come up with that number? You're reaching with that statement and number. The examples you pointed out with Ruby Ridge proves my point that it was squashed almost immediately. While Tim may have meant to retaliate, not one person thought what he did was OK, especially to get behind his cause. Most certainly not to raise their arms against the government. I don't think the people have it in them... It's my opinion and your made believe number doesn't change it. Squashed almost immediately . . . it was nearly two weeks and it was just one guy and his kids. And it pissed a LOT of people off. The black guy who shot 4-5 cops in Dallas this year because of police violence. The thousands of American Indians in AIM who had a shootout/standoff with the FBI and it almost happened again this year when they took a pipeline through Indian lands in North Dakota. Civilization is fragile. Tons of people are just waiting for an excuse to start shit. And you clearly have not thought through this. If the government openly attacked citizenry, massive, massive numbers of military, police, and intelligence agents would defect. Congressmen and Senators would raise holy hell. You can't pass a fucking tax cut but we're all gonna sit by while someone bombs a US city? 4-5 states would secede immediately. New Hampshire, Texas, Alaska, Vermont, and much of the old South. Courts would issue injuncitons. Generals would refuse commands. Hell, Trump can't even issue a 6 month travel ban but somehow a US President can attack citizens no problem? This is cartoonish reasoning.
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Post by Angelo on Oct 4, 2017 15:03:13 GMT -5
How did you come up with that number? You're reaching with that statement and number. The examples you pointed out with Ruby Ridge proves my point that it was squashed almost immediately. While Tim may have meant to retaliate, not one person thought what he did was OK, especially to get behind his cause. Most certainly not to raise their arms against the government. I don't think the people have it in them... It's my opinion and your made believe number doesn't change it. Squashed almost immediately . . . it was nearly two weeks and it was just one guy and his kids. And it pissed a LOT of people off. The black guy who shot 4-5 cops in Dallas this year because of police violence. The thousands of American Indians in AIM who had a shootout/standoff with the FBI and it almost happened again this year when they took a pipeline through Indian lands in North Dakota. Civilization is fragile. Tons of people are just waiting for an excuse to start shit. And you clearly have not thought through this. If the government openly attacked citizenry, massive, massive numbers of military, police, and intelligence agents would defect. Congressmen and Senators would raise holy hell. You can't pass a fucking tax cut but we're all gonna sit by while someone bombs a US city? 4-5 states would secede immediately. New Hampshire, Texas, Alaska, Vermont, and much of the old South. Courts would issue injuncitons. Generals would refuse commands. Hell, Trump can't even issue a 6 month travel ban but somehow a US President can attack citizens no problem? This is cartoonish reasoning. Yeah the Pipeline standoff, there were active duty soldiers on leave who were there backing up the protesters. Then there was that very large group of vets that went and joined too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:04:57 GMT -5
Soldiers take an oath to defend the Constitution from threats both foreign and domestic.
Pretty sure any leader who tries to get this military to start firing on American citizens is going to find an even higher desertion rate than 50%.
Do I have hard evidence of this? No. But I do know a lot of soldiers and former soldiers.
Not a single one of them would go along with such a thing.
The first thing to happen would be massive massive amounts of mutiny.
And now you've just handed to the other side a very well trained defensive Force. They might not have the same technologically advanced weapons, but they won't exactly need them. Because they'll have numbers. And the citizens of the United States have more guns than the military of the United States has. I prefer we keep it that way.
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Post by Baph on Oct 4, 2017 23:41:12 GMT -5
BLM shuts down ACLU speech at William and Mary's: reason.com/blog/2017/10/04/black-lives-matter-students-shut-down-thIronically, Gastañaga had intended to speak on the subject, "Students and the First Amendment." The disruption was livestreamed on BLM at W&M's Facebook page. Students took to the stage just a few moments after Gastañaga began her remarks. At first, she attempted to spin the demonstration as a welcome example of the kind of thing she had come to campus to discuss, commenting "Good, I like this," as they lined up and raised their signs. "I'm going to talk to you about knowing your rights, and protests and demonstrations, which this illustrates very well. Then I'm going to respond to questions from the moderators, and then questions from the audience." It was the last remark she was able to make before protesters drowned her out with cries of, "ACLU, you protect Hitler, too." They also chanted, "the oppressed are not impressed," "shame, shame, shame, shame," (an ode to the Faith Militant's treatment of Cersei Lannister in Game of Thrones, though why anyone would want to be associated with the religious fanatics in that particular conflict is beyond me), "blood on your hands," "the revolution will not uphold the Constitution," and, uh, "liberalism is white supremacy." This went on for nearly 20 minutes. Eventually, according to the campus's Flat Hat News, one of the college's co-organizers of the event handed a microphone to the protest's leader, who delivered a prepared statement. The disruption was apparently payback for the ACLU's principled First Amendment defense of the Charlottesville alt-right's civil liberties. Organizers then canceled the event; some members of the audience approached the podium in an attempt to speak with Gastañaga, but the protesters would not permit it. They surrounded Gastañaga, raised their voices even louder, and drove everybody else away.
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