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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 22:03:55 GMT -5
I'm watching this right now on one of the showtime channels.
Really cool documentary about how certain prisons in thailand have programs for teaching prisoners muay thai and allowing them to earn their freedom if they can become champions.
Seriously bad-ass throw back to the gladiatorial days in ancient Rome when gladiators could be freed by winning enough.
I haven't finished watching it yet, but they already asked the big question that's worth considering: can violent criminals rehabilitate themselves through violence??
I personally don't think it's a great idea but it's still interesting.
I mean there's one guy who was a meth head who was freed after becoming a muay thai champ and I didn't take issue with that cause I think all drugs should be legal, but now they are talking about a murderer who is trying to earn his freedom by becoming a MT champ and that shit doesn't quite jive with me lol.
I mean if you ask me violent criminals are the LAST people who should be taught martial arts.
It's the law abiding people who need them to defend themselves against the scum of the earth.
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Post by ToNoAvail on Feb 24, 2017 22:09:56 GMT -5
Sounds like a JCVD movie plot where he is wrongfully imprisoned.
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Post by boboplata on Feb 24, 2017 23:07:55 GMT -5
I'm watching this right now on one of the showtime channels. Really cool documentary about how certain prisons in thailand have programs for teaching prisoners muay thai and allowing them to earn their freedom if they can become champions. Seriously bad-ass throw back to the gladiatorial days in ancient Rome when gladiators could be freed by winning enough. I haven't finished watching it yet, but they already asked the big question that's worth considering: can violent criminals rehabilitate themselves through violence?? I personally don't think it's a great idea but it's still interesting. I mean there's one guy who was a meth head who was freed after becoming a muay thai champ and I didn't take issue with that cause I think all drugs should be legal, but now they are talking about a murderer who is trying to earn his freedom by becoming a MT champ and that shit doesn't quite jive with me lol. I mean if you ask me violent criminals are the LAST people who should be taught martial arts. It's the law abiding people who need them to defend themselves against the scum of the earth. On the contrary, this would probably teach them about hardwork and discipline which they probably lacked, hence, that's why they're in prison.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 23:20:20 GMT -5
I'm watching this right now on one of the showtime channels. Really cool documentary about how certain prisons in thailand have programs for teaching prisoners muay thai and allowing them to earn their freedom if they can become champions. Seriously bad-ass throw back to the gladiatorial days in ancient Rome when gladiators could be freed by winning enough. I haven't finished watching it yet, but they already asked the big question that's worth considering: can violent criminals rehabilitate themselves through violence?? I personally don't think it's a great idea but it's still interesting. I mean there's one guy who was a meth head who was freed after becoming a muay thai champ and I didn't take issue with that cause I think all drugs should be legal, but now they are talking about a murderer who is trying to earn his freedom by becoming a MT champ and that shit doesn't quite jive with me lol. I mean if you ask me violent criminals are the LAST people who should be taught martial arts. It's the law abiding people who need them to defend themselves against the scum of the earth. On the contrary, this would probably teach them about hardwork and discipline which they probably lacked, hence, that's why they're in prison. Well yes, to a certain extent it could, I mean that's the whole idea behind martial arts, especially in a buddhist country like Thailand where buddhist teachings are often mixed in with MT training which is really cool cause from my perspective the only religions I could see myself practicing are eastern ones like Buddhism and Taoism which really try to teach self control and taking responsibility for one's actions. But the thing is, I'm still watching it and there's a half hour left, and this one guy who killed a guy by stabbing him in the neck for no reason when he was drunk is getting a chance to earn his freedom if he wins a thai fight after only 11 years in prison and a fine. I mean is that fucking fair?? I don't think so. They interviewed the victim's parents and they were talking about how he shouldn't be freed after only 11 years in prison if he wins a fight. That's just rewarding him in a way he doesn't deserve IMO. I think the idea of teaching someone discipline through martial arts who is really a serious criminal is a dangerous prospect that could in some cases work, and in some cases fail miserably. Maybe you get some people who redeem themselves and learn the whole philosophy behind martial arts and live a good life afterwards, while others stay evil murders who now are trained fighters. I mean look at scum bags like Brett Rogers who choked his girlfriend half to death or whatever, or even Lee Murray. My mind is forgetting the list of MMA fighters who have done prison time, you wanna help me out on this one?? And of them, I'm not sure how many are murderers, but I would NOT teach a murderer martial arts and let him be free if he wins a fight while the victim's family gets no justice. If he wants discipline he can wash pots and pans for 50 years and meditate alone in his cell. I just really can't agree with the prospect as a whole. I'll update on what happens in this doc once I'm finished watching.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 0:05:01 GMT -5
SPOILER ALERT:
A lot of you guys might like this so if you don't want to know what happens then don't read further....
Really good documentary overall that left me questioning the whole idea of this.
I mean in the end the fight between the Thai murderer and an American goes to a decision so OF COURSE they give the decision to the Thai (my old MT instructor DESTROYED a thai in thailand and lost the decision and I'm convinced foreigners almost never win decisions against thais...)
So he got a royal pardon which completely wiped his record clean and declared him a new man with no criminal history.
They make it look really nice and he goes home and sees his family and kids and says he's going to be a different person in the future and the final message is basically "through fighting he learned NOT to fight"...
Nice message and all...BUT...
They basically just show one picture towards the end of the mother of the guy he killed sadly looking at a photo of her son and you have to wonder what she'd want....her husband (victim's father) said he did NOT think it was right for the guy to be freed earlier, and I think the victim's family's feelings should be what matters most.
I mean they say that no one who has graduated this program and gained their freedom through winning a fight has returned to prison, but of course the victim's parents both mentioned how "it will look so great for the prison system" in a mocking tone...and you kind of have to realize that there's a bit of propaganda at play here too...
Sure, I think the Thai government wants it to be a program to rehabilitate and make better men but is it really fair if these guys are murderers and not just petty criminals??
I don't think so.
If there's a 1 in 100 chance this dude now uses the Muay Thai skills he learned in prison to help him kill someone else he should never be freed.
And I mean that begs the question also: is prison for rehabilitation or punishment??
People disagree on this strongly and I don't know which I think, I guess I'd say both, but in the end, I'd say the final say should go to the victim's family.
I mean legally it can't work that way, that whatever the victim's family says goes, but in reality, even if we could somehow know for 100% that these guys freed by winning fights would NEVER commit another crime, if they murdered someone and the victim's family wants to see them remain in prison, then why does the murderer deserve another chance at freedom after only 11 years in prison when the victim and his family don't get a second chance at life??
Overall, it's a cool idea to rehabilitate criminals and makes for a great story, but I can't agree with freeing TRULY VIOLENT criminals from prison for winning fights.
After the camera's done rolling for us, now the victim's parents get to think to themselves "now our son's murderer is a free man after only 11 years in prison just because he kicked some other guy's ass"....just great...
If this was like a thief or drug dealer I could buy it, but as nice as the idea is of creating better people through martial arts, if you kill someone you shouldn't learn how to be a more efficient killer and then set free because of it IMO...
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Post by boboplata on Feb 25, 2017 0:33:11 GMT -5
You dont need to be a trained martial artist to kill. And if the stipulations for his freedom seems flippant to you, who are you to say which is ridiculous with the US criminal justice system? Or Canada's. Remember the chinese guy who decapitated a guy in a bus with a knife and ate some of his parts will be free after serving 5 yrs in a mental institution.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 1:20:15 GMT -5
You dont need to be a trained martial artist to kill. And if the stipulations for his freedom seems flippant to you, who are you to say which is ridiculous with the US criminal justice system? Or Canada's. Remember the chinese guy who decapitated a guy in a bus with a knife and ate some of his parts will be free after serving 5 yrs in a mental institution. Of course you don't need to know martial arts to kill, but they can only make an already violent person even BETTER at killing UNLESS they are somehow rehabilitated through the process, but there's lots of ways to rehab someone without teaching them how to fight and I don't believe in the idea of teaching killers how to fight better. But I'm not say anything at all about the American or Canadian prison system being any better. I mean I don't know about how all the world's prison systems work but most probably have some really bad sides. I don't agree with the U.S. drug laws and how many of our prisons are full of non-violent drug offenders and lots of prisoners are abused in the U.S. and elsewhere...I'm not trying to say who's system is any better. I DEFINITELY would NOT free the dude who cut someone's head off. I heard about that guy but I didn't know he was being freed. I mean if he's truly insane (which he sounds like he is) then he should just be in a mental hospital the rest of his life. I'm not even sure if someone who's ever killed anyone should be allowed out of prison IMO...it all depends on the circumstance. I mean at the end I have to admit they make it look really good and I'm going to guess that this guy doesn't go on to kill anyone else. He seemed like some guy who was in a gang and got drunk and killed someone and probably really learned from it...but on the one hand, the victim's family still has to suffer, and also, again, I just don't think teaching killers to fight is so great. It's interesting though. I mean I watch a LOT of prison documentaries, Lockup and shit like that, and I was watching one the other night on this guy Darnell Smith who killed someone and cut him up who is spending life in prison. They were showing him hitting a heavy bag and he didn't look like he'd necessarily trained before but this was just a really fucking jacked scary looking murderer and I thought to myself "man, imagine if they taught that guy BJJ how much more scary he'd be!! I'd NEVER want him to learn martial arts and would have to use everything I know to survive a fight against that guy just cause he's so jacked and crazy..." So yeah....teaching murderers to fight is just not something I can get with, but the documentary was still really good and I recommend it and the MT fight at the end was really good and all the footage of the Thai training was high quality. Still makes me think of the long list of MMA fighters with prison time, from Lee Murray to Brett Rogers to Tank Abbot I think...not sure how many became better people by learning to fight, but I guess it could happen...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 7:17:15 GMT -5
Remember the chinese guy who decapitated a guy in a bus with a knife and ate some of his parts will be free after serving 5 yrs in a mental institution. I would have to see that happen to actually believe it. They may say he can be free in 5 years but I highly doubt that happens.
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