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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 10:36:56 GMT -5
Just when you thought this division couldnt get any more fucked up...
Jesus christ what a mess.
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Post by locogato11283 on Dec 9, 2016 10:41:00 GMT -5
This is everyone's fault but Pettis.
The UFC, USADA and the gaming commissions should all accept blame.
MAKE these guys fight at their natural weights and you eliminate all this shit.
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Post by Tapout on Dec 9, 2016 10:42:49 GMT -5
Is it me, or have we seen an uptick in issues when WME took over?
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 10:44:19 GMT -5
This is everyone's fault but Pettis. The UFC, USADA and the gaming commissions should all accept blame. MAKE these guys fight at their natural weights and you eliminate all this shit. While I agree that they should make them fight at their natural weights, this is MOST CERTAINLY Anthony's fault. At this point in his career, and as a FORMER CHAMPION, he should be able to make weight. Not making weight is almost always a sign of personal problems with a fighter, whether it be a bad camp or laziness, the blame falls entirely on the fighter.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 10:46:09 GMT -5
I just cant believe how much trouble the UFC went though to make this a title fight, and in the end IT WAS ALL FOR NOOTIN'!
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Post by jsporty1 on Dec 9, 2016 10:52:28 GMT -5
I agree that the blame is on Pettis. He's a professional, not some rookie on an early season of TUF. He knew what would be required of him the minute he signed that contract.
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Post by locogato11283 on Dec 9, 2016 10:55:06 GMT -5
Nah, this is not his fault. It's not his fault that the governing agencies make it impossible for these guys to compete at their natural weight classes.
Pettis should be a WW. It's not his fault they allow 200 pound guys to cut to 170.
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Post by Tapout on Dec 9, 2016 10:57:30 GMT -5
I agree with Loco to a degree. Something has to be done about these weight cuts. Allowing fighters to cut so much weight, is just a recipe for things like this to occur.
I cant be mad at my daughter for eating a shit ton of candy, if I put the candy jar in the middle of the living room floor without the top.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 11:01:37 GMT -5
Nah, this is not his fault. It's not his fault that the governing agencies make it impossible for these guys to compete at their natural weight classes. Pettis should be a WW. It's not his fault they allow 200 pound guys to cut to 170. No one is making him fight at 145. It was his decision to drop down and fight at that weight and when he agreed to do so, he committed to making weight like a professional. It just sucks he's too fucking lazy to get the job done. Says a lot about why he's not a champion anymore - he couldnt handle the amount of work it requires to be at the top.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 11:05:16 GMT -5
I agree with Loco to a degree. Something has to be done about these weight cuts. Allowing fighters to cut so much weight, is just a recipe for things like this to occur. I cant be mad at my daughter for eating a shit ton of candy, if I put the candy jar in the middle of the living room floor without the top. Terrible analogy. Pettis is not a child who hasnt developed self control and discipline. He is a grown ass man who is a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE AND FORMER CHAMPION. Stop making excuses for his lazy ass.
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Post by skidds on Dec 9, 2016 11:15:21 GMT -5
Nah, this is not his fault. It's not his fault that the governing agencies make it impossible for these guys to compete at their natural weight classes. Pettis should be a WW. It's not his fault they allow 200 pound guys to cut to 170. No one is making him fight at 145. It was his decision to drop down and fight at that weight and when he agreed to do so, he committed to making weight like a professional. It just sucks he's too fucking lazy to get the job done. Says a lot about why he's not a champion anymore - he couldnt handle the amount of work it requires to be at the top. how do you know it was his decision to drop? maybe it was the ufc's or his manager's..... anthony had lost three in a row... he might have been told ...hey if you want big fights you better try dropping . and until a guy becomes a chronic weight misser please dont call him lazy ..I dont recall him having munch of an issue before. there is just as much of a chance there was an injury or something.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 11:20:18 GMT -5
I would hope that Anthony is in control of his own career. If he's injured and cant make weight then he shouldnt be fighting at all.
So many Pettis labia swingers in here... SMH.
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Post by mmaphreak on Dec 9, 2016 11:25:39 GMT -5
Nah, this is not his fault. It's not his fault that the governing agencies make it impossible for these guys to compete at their natural weight classes. Pettis should be a WW. It's not his fault they allow 200 pound guys to cut to 170. So what's your solution? Same day weigh-ins? Weigh-in before you walk into the cage? Both of those options are not good for the welfare of the fighters because you will still have guys cutting to make the weight and then go in and fight immediately? The way they do it now is safer. It's part of the sport. If you can't do it, go up in weight. Not like Pettis didn't know it was coming.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 11:35:24 GMT -5
So apparently this is still a title fight, but only if Max wins. lol - this is so stupid...
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Post by locogato11283 on Dec 9, 2016 11:36:52 GMT -5
Nah, this is not his fault. It's not his fault that the governing agencies make it impossible for these guys to compete at their natural weight classes. Pettis should be a WW. It's not his fault they allow 200 pound guys to cut to 170. So what's your solution? Same day weigh-ins? Weigh-in before you walk into the cage? Both of those options are not good for the welfare of the fighters because you will still have guys cutting to make the weight and then go in and fight immediately? The way they do it now is safer. It's part of the sport. If you can't do it, go up in weight. Not like Pettis didn't know it was coming. YES, same day weigh-ins. Pretty fucking simple. OR, you can do weigh-ins the night before, but they have to be within 5 pounds come fight time. JFC, this isn't rocket science. Don't wrestlers do it? These guys need to have an established walk around weight. And they need to fight at or very near that weight.
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Post by peAk on Dec 9, 2016 12:25:20 GMT -5
Shouldn't have stripped Conor
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 12:36:46 GMT -5
Shouldn't have stripped Conor Yup. Conor is rolling around on the ground (with both of his belts) laughing his ass off right now.
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Post by ocmmafan on Dec 9, 2016 12:38:48 GMT -5
There is no way to make someone fight at their "natural" weight. They could try hydration tests like amateur wrestling but it's never going to happen, and no one wants it to happen. These guys are adults that choose where the want to compete. Pettis went down after losing 3 fights because he wasn't a top competitor at 155. He's trying his luck at 145. This is ALL on him and he didn't want to keep losing at 155 where he was unable to defend take downs. Boxers cut weight, horse jockeys cut weight, MMAers cut weight. NFL players gain weight to help their body absorb the contact. Should we say they have to play at their "natural" weight? Ever see Bosworth a year after he quit playing football? Dude probably couldn't make good high school teams because he was down to 200 pounds.
Also, the claim that cutting weight is a huge advantage is slowing showing it's not what people claim it is. 5 years ago people who have said their is no way Cowboy and Masvidal could go to 170 and kick ass. Guess what? They have. So has Poirier at 155, Conor to 155. These fighters can choose what they want to do.
But this not being a title fight really doesn't mean anything. The winner still gets Aldo for the title.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 12:43:43 GMT -5
There is no way to make someone fight at their "natural" weight. They could try hydration tests like amateur wrestling but it's never going to happen, and no one wants it to happen. These guys are adults that choose where the want to compete. Pettis went down after losing 3 fights because he wasn't a top competitor at 155. He's trying his luck at 145. This is ALL on him and he didn't want to keep losing at 155 where he was unable to defend take downs. Boxers cut weight, horse jockeys cut weight, MMAers cut weight. NFL players gain weight to help their body absorb the contact. Should we say they have to play at their "natural" weight? Ever see Bosworth a year after he quit playing football? Dude probably couldn't make good high school teams because he was down to 200 pounds. Also, the claim that cutting weight is a huge advantage is slowing showing it's not what people claim it is. 5 years ago people who have said their is no way Cowboy and Masvidal could go to 170 and kick ass. Guess what? They have. So has Poirier at 155, Conor to 155. These fighters can choose what they want to do. But this not being a title fight really doesn't mean anything. The winner still gets Aldo for the title. BOOM BITCH! ^This guy just dropped logic bombs on your asses!
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Post by jamesod on Dec 9, 2016 13:58:33 GMT -5
There is no way to make someone fight at their "natural" weight. They could try hydration tests like amateur wrestling but it's never going to happen, and no one wants it to happen. I remember long, long ago talking to NinjaStyle about hydration tests. I thought he was telling me that at the time there were probably ways to beat the tests but I don't remember the details. But if they could get the technology down, who in their right mind wouldn't want people fighting at their natural weights? The fans should want it. Nobody in their right mind can truly believe these guys are fighting in optimal condition 30 hours after having cut and regained 10-15% of their body weight. I want the fighters I'm paying money to see fight be in optimal condition. Don't you? Presumably we'd see better fights if nobody was drained from weight cutting. The fighters should want it. If you weigh 203 and your opponent weighs 204, wouldn't you rather just fucking fight him with a 205 lb weight limit, rather than both of you cutting and then regaining 20 lbs (to make 185) for no good reason? Again, this is all premised on having technology that can make fighting at one's natural weight both safe and required. But assuming we got to that point, who in their right minds would still want weight cutting to be a part of this sport? Dudes who like spending time in saunas with other, half-naked, dudes. That's who.
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Post by mmaphreak on Dec 9, 2016 14:18:08 GMT -5
who would want it? probably the former wrestlers, which the last time i checked, there were quite a few in mma. for them it's life. because of that they have an edge. in mma, weight cutting is a skill almost in line with the various other skills needed to compete (boxing, wrestling, muay thai, etc). those that are good at it, have an advantage. dolce has made a nice post-fighting career for himself teaching/implementing the skill.
i agree, in a perfect world, i'd like to see two guys fight at their natural weights. i just think that weight cutting is too far ingrained in the sport for it to drastically change.
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Post by hammerfaust on Dec 9, 2016 14:20:06 GMT -5
Two things:
1 - it is 100% Pettis' fault for missing weight. He signed the contract and didn't live up to his end of the deal. I don't care what weight he 'walks around at', he didn't sign the contract this morning. He had a full camp to be a professional and lose the weight.
2 - I love the fact that he missed weight and threw a wrench into the UFC's plans with their fucking bullshit interim title. I really hope Pettis wins and there is no interim title holder.
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 14:48:52 GMT -5
Two things: 1 - it is 100% Pettis' fault for missing weight. He signed the contract and didn't live up to his end of the deal. I don't care what weight he 'walks around at', he didn't sign the contract this morning. He had a full camp to be a professional and lose the weight. 2 - I love the fact that he missed weight and threw a wrench into the UFC's plans with their fucking bullshit interim title. I really hope Pettis wins and there is no interim title holder. Agreed on all points. It's just crazy because if Pettis wins, he'll still fight Aldo for the belt. So what is the point of an interim belt for this fight?
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Post by jamesod on Dec 9, 2016 14:52:11 GMT -5
who would want it? probably the former wrestlers, which the last time i checked, there were quite a few in mma. for them it's life. because of that they have an edge. in mma, weight cutting is a skill almost in line with the various other skills needed to compete (boxing, wrestling, muay thai, etc). those that are good at it, have an advantage. dolce has made a nice post-fighting career for himself teaching/implementing the skill. i agree, in a perfect world, i'd like to see two guys fight at their natural weights. i just think that weight cutting is too far ingrained in the sport for it to drastically change. The "wrestlers have an advantage weight cutting" just isn't as true as it was five-ten years ago. You're not seeing very many wrestlers that have, say, a ten lb advantage in the cage at fight time. For the most part, others have caught up. The top fighters have dieticians who generally are getting this shit down to a science. But to the few remaining wrestlers who feel like weight cutting gives them an advantage, to them I say "I don't care." I want the things that are important to fighting to be important in mma. Strength, skill, stamina, fight IQ - all important in mma, all are important in a fight. Weight cutting? Important in mma. Irrelevant in a fight. So why would we ever want to encourage having this otherwise meaningless skill of weight cutting be a relevant skill in mma if we can avoid it? I agree it's ingrained at this point. But all sports evolve. If mma ever evolves to drastically reduce weight cutting, I think that will be a good thing.
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Post by clubman on Dec 9, 2016 16:09:59 GMT -5
so if pettis wins, does the interim belt go back to aldo or mcgregor? does aldo have 1.5 belts or does mcgregor have his belt stripped from him, and handed half a belt?
wth!
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Post by jonas0tt0 on Dec 9, 2016 16:24:11 GMT -5
It's very simple: Conor is the unofficial champ. Aldo is the official champ. Max will be the interim champ if he wins. Pettis is only a contender if he wins.
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Post by clubman on Dec 9, 2016 17:10:35 GMT -5
so the interim vanishes if pettis wins? is this the first time this has happened?
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Post by clubman on Dec 9, 2016 17:12:13 GMT -5
my sources have told me that pettis was crushing rib eye steaks in toronto 2 nights ago at the Keg. if anyone knows ariel helwani and want to give him the scoop, message me i think he has pics. sounds like he decided to give zero fucks to making weight
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Post by mmaphreak on Dec 9, 2016 19:53:49 GMT -5
who would want it? probably the former wrestlers, which the last time i checked, there were quite a few in mma. for them it's life. because of that they have an edge. in mma, weight cutting is a skill almost in line with the various other skills needed to compete (boxing, wrestling, muay thai, etc). those that are good at it, have an advantage. dolce has made a nice post-fighting career for himself teaching/implementing the skill. i agree, in a perfect world, i'd like to see two guys fight at their natural weights. i just think that weight cutting is too far ingrained in the sport for it to drastically change. The "wrestlers have an advantage weight cutting" just isn't as true as it was five-ten years ago. You're not seeing very many wrestlers that have, say, a ten lb advantage in the cage at fight time. For the most part, others have caught up. The top fighters have dieticians who generally are getting this shit down to a science. But to the few remaining wrestlers who feel like weight cutting gives them an advantage, to them I say "I don't care." I want the things that are important to fighting to be important in mma. Strength, skill, stamina, fight IQ - all important in mma, all are important in a fight. Weight cutting? Important in mma. Irrelevant in a fight. So why would we ever want to encourage having this otherwise meaningless skill of weight cutting be a relevant skill in mma if we can avoid it? I agree it's ingrained at this point. But all sports evolve. If mma ever evolves to drastically reduce weight cutting, I think that will be a good thing. if you have better weight cutting skills and can come into a fight bigger and stronger than your opponent, how exactly is that irrelevant?
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Post by Angelo on Dec 9, 2016 22:24:19 GMT -5
Very simple, weigh-ins start 2 weeks from the fight, and they weigh each day, say a 10lb allowance. For the 2 weigh ins before fight night, 5lb allowance. Weigh in 1hr before first fight, have to be at weight. That'll force fighters to fight as near to their natural weight as possible, and cause less stress on their bodies long term.
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