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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 13, 2018 18:40:04 GMT -5
You are trying to frame the argument as something else, as usual. You have absolutely nothing to go on in this discussion other than moving the goalpost and trying to use personal insults. I didn't say anyone was a fan of the patriot act. I said that supporting Trump is passive acceptance of continuing the status quo when it comes to executive overreach, civilian liberty, and continuing down the path of selling our country to the military industry. You're trying as usual to make this a "wah wah I'm a cuck so you must be a stupid liberal" argument when it's not. It's a discussion about the post 9/11 world and the things our government has done and continues to do to take our freedom one step piece at a time.
You can continue to circle jerk yourself about whatever you want, but I'm pretty much done here unless you're interested in continuing the conversation we were having. Derailing every conversation is such a Trumpanzee move that it's stereotypical at this point. Get on facebook and argue with your high school classmates or whatever you're used to. You just sound silly on this board at this point.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 13, 2018 18:41:57 GMT -5
I don't think you're going to find anyone on here who was in favor of the Patriot Act. That's a serious reach. You don't think this forum's #1 proto-fascist bootlick ocmmafan wasn't in favor of expanded government authority? He works for the agency created in direct response to 9/11, doesn't he? He doesn't have the balls to come on here and say a word about this. It's a moot point anyway. Tony's dad wouldn't let him have 100 dollars to pay off a check his mouth wrote, let alone a million.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 19:04:28 GMT -5
How is a military parade an example of executive branch overreach? Isn't he in charge of the entire military? Pretty sure he is... Can you tell me how many agencies have been shrunk under Trump? I mean you seem so hell-bent on pointing out these examples of government overreach, so I would assume you would also keep yourself Informed as to the places where our government has been shrunken. But I bet you have not. How many Freedom of Information requests have been denied by the Trump Administration? The problem that you have Andrew is that you talk straight out of your ass. You seem to have a vague idea of what was going on and seem to try and run with this liberal bullshit narrative that Trump is doing liberal things like expanding the power of government. Except, he's not. It's really that simple. And if you can find one person on here who has ever said that they are a big fan of the Patriot Act, I will give you 1 million dollars. And I'm not joking. 1 million dollars. And let's be real here dude, that's the only way you're going to see this kind of money. You're pretty good with a shovel right? Start digging. You'll find China at the bottom of your hole before you find a single person here saying that the Patriot Act was fucking awesome. But if you happen to succeed in finding someone here who was a fan of the Patriot Act and talked about how awesome it was, PM your key address and I will personally deposit 153 BTC straight in. I'm a fan of the Patriot Act.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 19:54:18 GMT -5
How is a military parade an example of executive branch overreach? Isn't he in charge of the entire military? Pretty sure he is... Can you tell me how many agencies have been shrunk under Trump? I mean you seem so hell-bent on pointing out these examples of government overreach, so I would assume you would also keep yourself Informed as to the places where our government has been shrunken. But I bet you have not. How many Freedom of Information requests have been denied by the Trump Administration? The problem that you have Andrew is that you talk straight out of your ass. You seem to have a vague idea of what was going on and seem to try and run with this liberal bullshit narrative that Trump is doing liberal things like expanding the power of government. Except, he's not. It's really that simple. And if you can find one person on here who has ever said that they are a big fan of the Patriot Act, I will give you 1 million dollars. And I'm not joking. 1 million dollars. And let's be real here dude, that's the only way you're going to see this kind of money. You're pretty good with a shovel right? Start digging. You'll find China at the bottom of your hole before you find a single person here saying that the Patriot Act was fucking awesome. But if you happen to succeed in finding someone here who was a fan of the Patriot Act and talked about how awesome it was, PM your key address and I will personally deposit 153 BTC straight in. I'm a fan of the Patriot Act. STFU Floyd.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:07:42 GMT -5
You guys think Trump and his military parades and rhetoric is doing anything at all to rollback executive overreach? He politicized the "wiretap" situation which would have been a perfect opportunity to unite people by asking "how the fuck does the federal government have the power to legally spy on it's own citizens like this?". Instead it became another divisive topic, ignoring the framework that even made it possible in the first place. Nobody voted for Trump and his limp dick chicken hawk tough guy rhetoric because they thought he was going to do a damn thing about the patriot act, militarization of police, our forever interventionist wars, or our out of control defense budget. And if they did, they did so completely based on their own imagination and not on anything tangible from him. It's sad that every single topic for you guys has to come back to Obama. Wasn't our president during the attack, and isn't now, and yet you can't wait to bring it up in a thread about 9/11. And Kyle, it's not a personal attack at all. I'm not saying you're too stupid to understand what socialism is or how Obama is far from a socialist. I'm saying the influences and propaganda that you digest have given you these talking points and you go with them in spite of being willfully ignorant of what the words actually mean. I can absolutely understand what the words mean and an MBA in finance and economics that had me studying socialism for over a year. Don’t try to paint everyone here in to certain corners, it continually makes you look stupid. Name the president in the last 25 years that has done the most to shrink governments power and control over its citizens. I would really like to hear who you think fits that the best and then hear you talk about how Trump is doing so much to promote over reaching policies. Have you done any listening to his two Supreme Court nominees yet?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:20:59 GMT -5
You are trying to frame the argument as something else, as usual. You have absolutely nothing to go on in this discussion other than moving the goalpost and trying to use personal insults. I see the shovel comment made it so you immediately forgot the parts where I mentioned the shrinking of the government. That part is definitely something to "go on". Look it up yourself. The idea that Trump is "in favor" of the obscene level of spying that has been going on is hilarious. Mostly because the previous administration used FISA warrants via the Patriot Act (and acting on that contrived dossier) to literally spy on his organization. But yeah dude, I've got "nothing to go on". No, you're trying to make insane leaps from point A to point B. Supporting Trump is acceptance of the status quo? Are you huffing glue? Do you not recall who he was running against? Tell me again where he's used executive authority to "over reach". Better yet, tell me how many Executive Orders he's issued to circumvent Congress? Which civil liberty has he removed? What did he do to the prices being paid to key military equipment providers just a few months after taking office? I mean, your next paragraph tries to imply that you're actually paying attention and I'm just "crying" or whatever. Do tiny weed plants kill more memory or what? And I'm trying to get you to actually acknowledge that the current president has not taken one iota of your freedom, in fact he's given you some back by repealing Obamacare (among other things). I am just tired of your bullshit dude. I think most here are. I'm not derailing anything except your half assed attempts to make nebulous points that you can never provide a shred of evidence to support.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 20:37:16 GMT -5
You don't think this forum's #1 proto-fascist bootlick ocmmafan wasn't in favor of expanded government authority? He works for the agency created in direct response to 9/11, doesn't he? He doesn't have the balls to come on here and say a word about this. It's a moot point anyway. Tony's dad wouldn't let him have 100 dollars to pay off a check his mouth wrote, let alone a million. It really speaks to your character when you feel the need to mention my in hospice care father whom I haven't spoken with in two years due to his inability to speak. The same guy who hasn't given me a dime in two decades and who's wealth I have personally surpassed. You have your chance to move out of the trailer park here man. Except you'll have better luck shining a flashlight through a black hole, because you aren't going to find any patriot act love here.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 13, 2018 21:06:38 GMT -5
Trump signed the FISA surveillance extension into law earlier this year. Spare me the bullshit about how he's doing anything to scale back the patriot act, surveillance of US citizens, or anything else that was being discussed in this thread before you and Kyle decided to try to make it an argument about unrelated bullshit.
You and your shitty jabs have zero affect on me, daddy's boy. Quit trying to appeal to emotion, it shows your yellow belly.
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Post by adamg01 on Sept 13, 2018 21:07:54 GMT -5
He doesn't have the balls to come on here and say a word about this. It's a moot point anyway. Tony's dad wouldn't let him have 100 dollars to pay off a check his mouth wrote, let alone a million. It really speaks to your character when you feel the need to mention my in hospice care father whom I haven't spoken with in two years due to his inability to speak. The same guy who hasn't given me a dime in two decades and who's wealth I have personally surpassed. You have your chance to move out of the trailer park here man. Except you'll have better luck shining a flashlight through a black hole, because you aren't going to find any patriot act love here. Dude liberals have no self respect, they verbally attack Trump’s little boy on the regular. You can’t have an adult conversation with a liberal, it’s like trying to have an intelligent disagreement with a brat. No wonder the party is a breeding ground for Socialism.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 23:06:42 GMT -5
It is pretty sad that Andrew has to turn a debate amongst adults in to a name calling contest and constant sidetracking towards trying to paint people as dumb compared to him.
Andrew... since you are so hell bent on your mission, can you answer my question on which President in the last 25+/- years has given more independence to the American public? 1 word answer will do. I know you won’t answer it because the correct answer makes you look stupid
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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 14, 2018 2:11:03 GMT -5
I appreciate the further evidence that you are what you claim to despise so much, a delicate little snowflake.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 7:15:30 GMT -5
Trump signed the FISA surveillance extension into law earlier this year. Spare me the bullshit about how he's doing anything to scale back the patriot act, surveillance of US citizens, or anything else that was being discussed in this thread before you and Kyle decided to try to make it an argument about unrelated bullshit. You and your shitty jabs have zero affect on me, daddy's boy. Quit trying to appeal to emotion, it shows your yellow belly. Seems like now you're being a tough guy, and that you are very scared as well. Also, you seem to think the FISA extension means Trump extended the original, unamended, law. That's pretty funny. What are you more scared of? Your own gov't or the gov'ts of other countries? Your clear emotional outburst is akin to a fighter shaking his head after being clipped. You dive into personal insults when you have no point or are revealed to be under informed. And you can never answer the questions you are asked. Basically you're like a sheltered child who proudly declares he's got it all figured out.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 14, 2018 8:16:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm the one who always devolves into personal insults first...right got it. Like I have said many times, I don't shoot first.
And you don't just get to demand that I answer your questions about whatever you feel like making a discussion about. I purposely ignore your baiting questions because they are always outside of the framework of the conversations. Go back and read this thread. Kyle just takes a wild left turn into a completely different topic, just because he doesn't want to answer or discuss my topical points and you follow right along.
Your displays towards me have gotten downright sad lately. Dumb, contrived, and unfunny digs followed by goalpost shifts and appeals to emotion at every turn. You seem desperate and lonely Tony. I'm sure you can think of some new fantastical lies to tell everyone about yourself to make yourself feel better about things if you really need to.
On topic, I think Trump the man is closer to my point of view on the subject of government surveillance. But Trump the politician is just another shlub continuing the infringement on our freedom. Combine that with him being just another coward chicken hawk authoritarian, and that's why I disagree with his policy and rhetoric. I'm aware of the new provisions in the reauthorization act, I'm just not convinced they are anything more than window dressing. It still authorizes the government to spy on it's own citizens first and get a warrant to admit it into court later. It's still in direct violation of the 4th amendment. There is nothing in it that limits the DOJ's power to intrude even further on the privacy of US citizens. It's punched up to add purposely vague language to appease some of the more libertarian leaning Rs in congress and that's about it. Nothing tangible changed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 8:30:13 GMT -5
The only way you're ever waking up is when you scale up to a higher tax bracket.
There is literally zero reason to continue any discourse with you until then.
And by then this place will be dead. Because all the best will be gone on to more productive uses of their time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 12:01:57 GMT -5
I'm a fan of the Patriot Act. STFU Floyd. whatever dude. That was hilarious.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 14:15:43 GMT -5
The only way you're ever waking up is when you scale up to a higher tax bracket. There is literally zero reason to continue any discourse with you until then. And by then this place will be dead. Because all the best will be gone on to more productive uses of their time. I’ve seen this hundreds of times. Higher income and having children are usually all it takes to make people change their views. I have had plenty of debates with people that call me selfish for wanting to keep more of my money. My response is always to tell them to revisit their opinion after having kids and you will realize that there is no such thing as being financially set. I will fight the government and all of the leeches in this country for how much of my money they can take until I’m dead. I’ve said it here so many tines, the only way you can be unhappy with trumps policy results up to this point is if you don’t have a work ethic or a marketable skill... because literally everyone on the workforce is richer than they were 2 years ago
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Post by adamg01 on Sept 14, 2018 15:07:21 GMT -5
The only way you're ever waking up is when you scale up to a higher tax bracket. There is literally zero reason to continue any discourse with you until then. And by then this place will be dead. Because all the best will be gone on to more productive uses of their time. I’ve seen this hundreds of times. Higher income and having children are usually all it takes to make people change their views. I have had plenty of debates with people that call me selfish for wanting to keep more of my money. My response is always to tell them to revisit their opinion after having kids and you will realize that there is no such thing as being financially set. I will fight the government and all of the leeches in this country for how much of my money they can take until I’m dead. I’ve said it here so many tines, the only way you can be unhappy with trumps policy results up to this point is if you don’t have a work ethic or a marketable skill... because literally everyone on the workforce is richer than they were 2 years ago It’s the rational at war with the emotionally driven It’s why hurt feelings is so high on their agenda of Trump complaints. The rational side are looking at how well the economy is doing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 15:17:31 GMT -5
I’ve seen this hundreds of times. Higher income and having children are usually all it takes to make people change their views. I have had plenty of debates with people that call me selfish for wanting to keep more of my money. My response is always to tell them to revisit their opinion after having kids and you will realize that there is no such thing as being financially set. I will fight the government and all of the leeches in this country for how much of my money they can take until I’m dead. I’ve said it here so many tines, the only way you can be unhappy with trumps policy results up to this point is if you don’t have a work ethic or a marketable skill... because literally everyone on the workforce is richer than they were 2 years ago It’s the rational at war with the emotionally driven It’s why hurt feelings is so high on their agenda of Trump complaints. The rational side are looking at how well the economy is doing. It is amazing to me how blind they can be. Obama was celebrated as a genius and savior, yet his performance numbers were dismal and in most cases went negative. Trumps 2 year performance in terms of international policy, minority success, economic growth, and household wealth literally look like a football game between the Patriots and a high school team. The fact that the party that is so pro-minority hates the guy that has minority wealth and employment at all time highs is enough to make you realize that being on that side is just plain dumb.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 14, 2018 16:03:49 GMT -5
Damn you 3 are pathetic. Tony gets destroyed after a futile attempt to make a valid topical point and takes his ball to go cry at home. Kyle is still running around with his fingers in his hears going "lah lah lah lah Obama welfare lah lah lah" and Adam "Der herp herp yeah guys! Guys? Guys, look at me I'm on your team I don't have a clue what's being discussed either look at me".
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Post by CaveBearOG on Sept 14, 2018 16:20:38 GMT -5
jesus christ andrew, when a dude, you, gets called on his bullshit then makes an attempt to fix the problem with insults its pathetic.....
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Post by adamg01 on Sept 14, 2018 16:23:43 GMT -5
Damn you 3 are pathetic. Tony gets destroyed after a futile attempt to make a valid topical point and takes his ball to go cry at home. Kyle is still running around with his fingers in his hears going "lah lah lah lah Obama welfare lah lah lah" and Adam "Der herp herp yeah guys! Guys? Guys, look at me I'm on your team I don't have a clue what's being discussed either look at me". Hey look it’s andrew trying to pretend like he is intellectually superior by hurling insults! Sadly, I think there are quite a few more than just 3 people on here who know you are a dumbass.
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Post by andrewk1988 on Sept 14, 2018 16:54:01 GMT -5
There's been zero calling on any bullshit. And the insults came at me first, so get off your high horse there sweetheart.
Lots of insecurities flying around at the moment here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 18:39:06 GMT -5
There's been zero calling on any bullshit. And the insults came at me first, so get off your high horse there sweetheart. Lots of insecurities flying around at the moment here. You're so full of shit dude. I didn't say a damn thing to you and roll through here and see that you're calling me a cuck because Kyle said something to you that ruffled your precious little feathers. So, allow me to derail the discussion one more time because I really want you to explain something to me. I want you to explain to me why I should give a single solitary fuck about your opinion regarding me or my political perspective, when it is 100% clear that you are never going to understand it? I want to know why I should give a shit if you are right or wrong about any specific social issue? Why in the world do I need to correct you or show you the light when you say shit that makes it seem like you're inhaling too many fumes from the tar? Voting for Trump is voting for the status quo. LOL. Anyone who says something so fucking stupid is not capable of having a serious discussion because they are completely disconnected from reality. I can't answer the questions that I asked above which makes me wonder why I would even bother trying to continue talking to you. There ain't enough time in the day to be wasting minutes of it with some douche nozzle that I am never going to have anything in common with or have any interest in learning anything from. The only thing you seem to try and do is break up things that you perceive to be quote-unquote Circle Jerks. Heaven forbid people who disagree with you happen to agree with each other. And there you are thinking you're so fucking high-and-mighty that you have a right to come in and just attack the people who have a different perspective than you do. People like you are a waste of time Andrew. That's why Baph isn't around as much, because you're injecting you're worthless $0.02 into anything you consider a circle jerk and you also completely disregard every time you are proven to be a complete idiot who talks out of his ass 90% of the time. If my time is precious, why waste any of it talking to an obtuse tardlette like yourself who's just going to have more inane complaints next week and the week after, forever? I don't see the point, because your repetition of finding a problem with every solution is tedious and boring. Be dumb. Be confused. Be whatever. Just don't be expecting much more of my attention kid, because you aren't worth it.
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Post by slaytan on Sept 15, 2018 8:19:43 GMT -5
Let us compare 9/11 with the two most relevant historical examples: The sinking of the Lusitania, which drew the U.S. into WW1, and Pearl Harbor.
The Lusitania: German submarine torpedoed Ocean liner, it sinks, killing a bunch of Americans and English (more English IIRC) civilians. US Government and media insist it was a naked act of aggression against civilians motivated purely by evil, history records it so.
Germany insists that the Lusitania was a supply ship in disguise (disguised, even to the passengers who paid good money for their ticket to the grave), loaded with ammunition - packed full below the waterline, which is why it exploded and sank immediately and caused so many deaths - in violation of international maritime rules, rules of war, and U.S. neutrality, thus a legitimate target. This story is dismissed as a despicable lie for decades, and history records its sinking as a war crime
By the 1980's, surveys of the wreckage confirm that it was loaded beyond capacity with munitions. In the 2000's, it emerges that not only was it packed with munitions, but the US government encouraged Americans to buy tickets.
It gets worse: Germany purchased advertsing in several major US papers on the East Coast, warning the public not to board the Lusitania, because it is illegally carrying munitions and subject to attack. The Wilson administration interferes and prevents the papers from publishing the warnings.
It gets worse, still. The Lusitania is ordered to NOT take any precautions (such as zig zagging, varying speed, etc.) against submarines, and when it had almost reached it's destination unscathed, it is ordered to just sit there until...
America enters WW1, and ruins the world forever
Pearl Harbor: The FDR government was dominated by Soviet Agents. The Japanese government was penetrated too, as was their military. Not to the same extent as the US (which was under complete control), but enough to feed the Japanese misinformation, an create a feedback loop wherein it was learned precisely what actions to take to convince Japan that the US was planning to exterminate them, and even what language to use so as to be most provocative and insulting. It was called "operation Snow." Germany had attacked the Soviet Union, and Stalin's greatest fear was that then Japan would attack as well, which would have been fatal to the USSR. Operation Snow was designed to fool Japan into attacking the US, instead of Russia.
Like the Lusitania story, it gets worse. Only in the last couple decades has it been acknowledged that the US had cracked the Japanese naval codes (more likely is that Soviet Agents had merely stolen them) and the US was able to listen to their communications (this is why #1: the US never lost a naval battle to Japan #2: it was such a scandal that the war was so bloody - it did not need to be). The story we are still fed is that the US, upon "unprovoked" attack, was shocked into action and only then, fortunately, broke the Naval codes. This should be laughed at, based on how desperate FDR was to provoke the war. A war he knew he could not lose.
We are supposed to believe that it was mere good luck, divine providence, that FDR ordered all of the Aircraft carriers away from Pearl Harbor, and safely out to sea, a couple days before the attack. The only ships destroyed by Japan in pearl haror were obsolete WW1 relics.
Still worse, is the repeated warnings of the attack, from scores of sources that the high command ordered not to be heeded, or even passed on. Furthermore, a phony report was passed, to expect the arrival of a large number new B-17 bombers on Sunday the 7th, so don't worry about the mass of aircraft appearing on your radar that morning.
Gee, it's "almost" as if FDR wanted as many Americans killed as possible, so as to create the most outrage and ensure war?
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Post by CaveBearOG on Sept 15, 2018 9:05:59 GMT -5
Lots of insecurities flying around at the moment here. Its beyond stupid for you to say that........I mean really....lmfao
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Post by MMAJim on Sept 18, 2018 11:43:05 GMT -5
If you watch plane impact videos from pre-9/11, then no, you would not expect to see that impact and then pieces of wing floating down to earth.
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Post by Fasthands25 on Sept 22, 2018 16:09:23 GMT -5
Yall niggas retarded. It was lizard people.
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Post by verbal0knit on Sept 24, 2018 12:47:37 GMT -5
Molten steel at wtc ground zero. The presence of molten steel would indicate the use of thermite at the wtc complex on 9/11, as jet fuel fire couldnt bring steel to a liquid state. However, nst investigators officially deny the presence of molten steel or thermite at the wtc complex, even though eye witnesses including firemen, structural engineers and other scientists are on record as having seen molten steel at the wtc complex up to 3 weeks after the buildings' collapse. In this picture, you can see orange molten steel pouring out of the front of the building as a fire billows out of the side window. Nst explains the supposed presence of molten steel as being molten aluminum from the plane fuselage, however molten aluminum is silver, while molten steel is orange. In this picture, you can see that molten aluminum is silver, while the substance pouring from the building was clearly an orange molten liquid. While nst officially denies the presence of molten steel at the wtc complex, numerous eye witnesses are on record as having personally seen molten steel at the wtc complex, including first responding firemen and structural engineers. Video lists engineers and firemen on record. click link and scroll down. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=300831927317354&id=766731303341406
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Post by verbal0knit on Sept 24, 2018 12:58:10 GMT -5
At the 8:00 minute mark, you can see the dark grey fuselage is still fully intact as the nose cone penetrates and exits the back end of the building prior to detonation.
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Post by verbal0knit on Sept 25, 2018 16:26:52 GMT -5
Conclusion:
When committing a crime, it's usually best to trick your victim into believing that someone else is responsible. And if you can then use the crime to manipulate and coerce both the victim, and the party that you have framed, then you might have committed the perfect crime...
Remember what happened to JFK when he tried to end the federal reserve(which is owned and operated by Talmudic Jewish bankers) by switching the dollar to silver instead of gold? He took a JHP to the face.
The ussr was lead by Bolshevik jews who took power after they captured, raped and murdered Czar Nicholas and the royal Russian family in the early 1900's. After that, the ussr went on to systematically murder over 100 million Christians leading up to WW2 and in the years directly following the war. Their leader was Joseph Stalin. "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime."In most cases, the person who profits the most from a crime is usually who committed the crime.After 9/11, US soldiers defeated most of Israel's middle eastern enemies. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Egypt... and they were drone bombing Syria and simultaneously arming Isis to help overthrow Assad until trump was elected in 2016.
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