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Post by sooner2 on Oct 17, 2016 10:42:56 GMT -5
Hell... guys like Bryant and Switzer (who were both Great... don't get me wrong...) could just have rosters of 100 players or so...and they would take advantage of their dominant program marketability.... and actually sign talented guys to come sit on their benches for four years..just to keep them off other teams' rosters . It's night and day how hard it is to win a natty now compared to in their era . Not to mention how in effect.... in any given year... three teams could lay claim to a title.
4 titles in 7 years in this environment that you accurately describe as a shark tank... not to mention building an lsu program from essentially nothing and winning one there !?!... it's the greatest resume in coaching history.
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Post by sooner2 on Oct 17, 2016 11:44:33 GMT -5
And on that topic of ranking the top coaches in modern era.... I always have a hard time with Osborne and switzer. Each was great. Each has three titles. Each has one of those titles as a somewhat shared title. Each left their programs under NCAA sanctions... with the OU sanctions perhaps being harsher than the NU ones. Tom won three in five years in a streak of dominance that was more consistent than switzers best run. Switzer owns a decided advantage in head to head over dr Tom though....12-5.
However.... Tom was looking like 11-1 times the next three OU coaches..... and those mid 90s dr Tom teams were great... among some of the best sides ever. . Of course... had Barry still been in Norman and able to recruit him he way he did... it'sossible that many of those dr Tom teams would not have been as successful... nor as loaded with talent (two all time Nebraska greats, mintor and shields , were also Oklahoma kids).
Also factor in that Osborne had one of the greatest runs in history from 82-84 with fryar, rimington, gill, and Mike rozier.... and that had they kicked an extra point vs Miami they would have been awarded the natty in the 83-4 season ?.....
And I think it's enough to say Osborne edges out Switzer for all time COLLEGE rankings . (Of course ... I still think Barry gets the edge overall since he also won a super bowl)
So who do u guys rank ahead in those two ?
How do u rank college coaches in the tv/ post war era?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 12:29:37 GMT -5
I grew up in Big 8 country, and I always considered Tom the better coach of the two. I know your name is sooner so you may disagree, but I think recruiting to fucking Nebraska >>>>> harder than recruiting to Oklahoma. Texas kids won't mind going to OU, it's still close enough to mama. But Nebraska? I bet a lot of football players didn't even know where the hell that was. How much in-state talent was there in Nebraska, anyway? Also the fact that they haven't been able to find (much) success since he left. Meanwhile, say what you want about Bob, but he won a title. OU is consistently in the top 10. Nebraska...may as well be Iowa at this point.
Other names that spring to mind are Bowden, Paterno, and you gotta include Woody. Woody was kind of before my time, but didn't he have a handful of NCs?
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Post by sooner2 on Oct 17, 2016 13:31:53 GMT -5
Yeah. Decent article this summer in sports in earth website that had me pause and reconsider some names. Modern tv era for me? I rank them thusly ( keep in mind I might have wilkinson under ranked because I'm not as familiar with him ... and he retired quite early to enter politics).
1- saban. Described above 2- bear. 3- Meyer. Like saban... deserves extra respect for winning at two schools.
4- Hayes- 5 titles. I think only one was shared. I had not realized this. Hayes was mostly before my time. For all the talk about the storied rivalries of bo and woody as if the two were equals... it wasn't even close when it came to titles for their schools. No never won the big one
5- Osborne - see above.
6- Switzer
7- Bowden
8- jopa. Both these guys deserve credits for building programs almost from scratch. Both had to schedule brutally hard schedules and go on the road to play all the powers when building their programs. The two are very close as far as resume.
9- wilkinson - three titles and several stretches of dominance/ undefeated runs.
10- McCay. Again , before my time. But had 3 titles. I think all 3 were disputed though??
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 6:07:52 GMT -5
Joe Pa takes a hit for knowingly employing a child rapist. So there's that.
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Post by Baph on Oct 19, 2016 12:56:47 GMT -5
Ok let's take a gander at the upcoming weekend:
Wiscy @ Iowa - really impressed with Wiscy right now. NC State @ Louisville - Louisville needs to string together some statement wins. TCU @ WVU - WVU stays undefeated and climbs into the top 10. Tex A&M @ Bama - A&M scares 'em early, get trampled in 2nd half. Ark @ Auburn - Nice game, Arkansas has finally learned to close out games, expect a win here. Ole Miss @ LSU - Low tier SEC match-up. Like Ole Miss to steal one on the road. LSU is rudderless.
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Post by sooner2 on Oct 19, 2016 15:21:32 GMT -5
What's the over under on the number of boogers harbaugh will munch?
2.5??
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Post by daywork on Oct 19, 2016 16:15:08 GMT -5
Ok let's take a gander at the upcoming weekend: Wiscy @ Iowa - really impressed with Wiscy right now. NC State @ Louisville - Louisville needs to string together some statement wins. TCU @ WVU - WVU stays undefeated and climbs into the top 10. Tex A&M @ Bama - A&M scares 'em early, get trampled in 2nd half. Ark @ Auburn - Nice game, Arkansas has finally learned to close out games, expect a win here. Ole Miss @ LSU - Low tier SEC match-up. Like Ole Miss to steal one on the road. LSU is rudderless. Louisville will have their hands full with NC State. That should be a very good game.
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Post by daywork on Oct 23, 2016 0:29:27 GMT -5
Well I was way off with thinking NC State would put up a fight against Louisville.
But holy shit, Ohio St lost to Penn St. WOW
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Post by Baph on Oct 23, 2016 14:26:22 GMT -5
Louisville looked like an elite team that got edged out at Clemson and now has a chip on their shoulder. They're out to dismantle people and make statements. The exact opposite of Houston, who took a loss and has now imploded completely with another near loss and now a second loss, all to complete shit opponents. Getting annihilated by SMU is something that's just unheard of even for mediocre teams. For someone who was in playoff discussions 3 weeks age, whose coach was being offered jobs at LSU and Texas, it's a huge red flag.
Ohio St made some big plays and then put it on auto pilot and tried to coast to a W, and in the final seconds was poised to walk out with an easy win, and the notorious blocked kick to TD strikes again. Incredible finish. This is the real difference between Bama and everyone else. When Bama is up 14, they step on your neck. When Ohio St is up 14, they chill. Pedo St scores 17 pts in the 4th quarter to come back and win by 3. Who's chillin' now?
Quietly, West Virginia remains undefeated, destroys TCU, and likely puts itself into the top 10 next week. They come to OKST next weekend and will face a solid test in a tough road environment. If WVU is for real we'll know it next weekend.
OU vs. Texas Tech was insane arena football. Mayfield had a school record 7 TDs. TTech's QB, Mahone, had an NCAA record 800+ all purpose yards. That's 200 yards a fucking quarter, folks. I'm actually just impressed by his cardio. The teams combined for 125 pts. Jesus Christ. How Mike Stoops remains employed, even with the good graces of his brother at the helm, is beyond me. At some point donor pressure has got to be heard. That secondary is a sieve.
SEC middleweights continue to beat the fuck out of each other. Arkansas got date raped by Auburn after seeming to turn the corner and having some great performances lately. Ole Miss thumped by an uncoached LSU. Both upsets.
And speaking of quietly undefeated . . . fucking Nebraska is 7-0, ranked 7th, with two MONSTER road games coming up in the next two weeks . . . @ Wiscy and @ Ohio St.
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Post by nickcage on Oct 24, 2016 0:56:36 GMT -5
Oh man Kirk Ferentz is so out of touch with hs recruits.
He pulled Eno Benjamin (Rivals 7 ranked RB who verbal led to Iowa) because he took two visits to Mizzo and ASU without telling the coaches. Kirk does this. He has for a while. If you take a visit after verballing--he will revoke the school ship offer.
The world doesn't work like that Kirk. You think Meyer or Saban would take a scholarship away because a key piece to the programs future takes a visit? Fuck no. Kids like to be wined and dined these days. NCAA let's them take 5 official vists so why the fuck do you care? He's basically been a cheerleader for a program over the last couple months, campaigning players to come to Iowa with him. It's Mizzo and ASU for Christ sakes. It's a stone age mentality.
Kirk extends official vists to already vebelled kids yearly. It's basically telling your child not to smoke while your smoking in their face. Let him take his fucking visits, see if he has an concerns about Iowa, address them, and resell your program. Big loss for us. A big self inflicted loss.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 6:21:05 GMT -5
Ferentz might be my least favorite coach in college football, and that's saying something.
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Post by Baph on Oct 25, 2016 23:38:45 GMT -5
Ok, let's move on.
Salty week coming up here:
Undefeated #10 WVU is @ OKST for Homecoming in Stillwater. Should be a brawl. Let's see if WVU is for real. OKST won last year in Morgantown.
Undefeated #2 Michigan is at Michigan St for a big rivalry game, though MSU has looked really off this season.
Undefeated #8 Baylor goes to Texas for what should be a good win, but Texas is always game to ruin someone's season with their team full of disgruntled 4- and 5-star recruits.
Undefeated #4 Wash is at #17 Utah for a solid match-up.
Undefeated #7 Nebraska is @ #11 Wisconsin in a really fun, retro-style clash of middle America bruisers.
Undefeated #3 Clemson gets another huge test against #12 Florida State. A win here should return them to the #2 spot.
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Post by daywork on Oct 29, 2016 10:09:26 GMT -5
I guess Nebraska vs Wisconsin is the big game today.
But I'm looking forward to Clemson vs Fla St. A few cappers are taking Fla St +4.5 in this game. I'm going against them and taking Clemson
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Post by Baph on Oct 29, 2016 17:54:00 GMT -5
OKST plays it's best game of the year and controls undefeated #10 WVU en route to a 17 pt win. WVU had just 10 pts on the board going into the 4th quarter. What's interesting is how it happened. Nothing flashy. Nothing you can really even point to in terms of standout performances. Just solid football. No turnovers. No critical mistakes. Good time/field management. Forced a couple turnovers and capitalized. Just mature, composed football that start to finish out played a really good WVU team who is coming off of their best start ever, including a 34-10 annihilation of TCU last week. Tex Tech, the team that just took OU down to the wire and scored 59 . . . WVU beat them 48-17 IN LUBBOCK. They beat Kansas St, BYU, Missouri . . . I mean, this is a solid team here, and they just got controlled. Now, keep in mind, OKST is 6 weeks out from a loss to Central fucking Michigan. Lord help me. What's really hard to swallow is you take away that dopey Cent Mich loss after the intentional grounding controversy and then you fumble on the Baylor 1 yd line and end up losing by 6 . . . this team could be undefeated right now. I'm not in knots about it because this is a flawed team, but it would be nice to be ranked and at least have a shot a making a solid bowl at some point. And when you see shit birds like ND and LSU and other blue bloods get their top 10 ranking every season, like elite until proven shitty, it's hard to ignore.
Sidebar: TCU is also holding Tex Tech to 17 pts. How are all these teams dropping gobs of pts on OU and then going back to offensive mediocrity against the rest of the field?
VS. Oklahoma:
TTech: 59 Texas: 40 Houston: 33 Ohio St: 45 TCU: 46
Scorched fucking Earth. And nearly all of those are season highs in scoring for those teams. Mike Stoops makes more money than you. Let that sink in.
Looking around . . . the whole scene is abject chaos.
Northwestern is neck-and-neck with Ohio St late in the 4th quarter . . . 4 pt game here. Yeesh. #4 Wash just pulled ahead of Utah with 3 min to go in the game. Undefeated #8 Baylor just pulled ahead of Texas at the end of the 3rd quarter.
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Post by Baph on Oct 30, 2016 22:01:07 GMT -5
So two undefeateds fall to unranked opponents.
Clemson has the best resume in college football.
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Post by Baph on Oct 30, 2016 23:52:54 GMT -5
So now Wash, Wiscy, and A&M get really interesting.
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Post by sooner2 on Oct 31, 2016 14:19:42 GMT -5
Great great game between clemson and fsu. Fsu played about as well as I've seen them play for four quarters. It was a pleasure watching clemson answer every time they got knocked down. Fsu fell apart with the bad call in their second to final drive. Jimbo lost his shit and the team followed suit. Untimely penalties. Still a great game to watch
Michigan rolled. But msu is pretty bad this year.
Took the chance to watch the complete osu west v game. Had seen little of either side. Pretty good game. Was impressed with osu defense. Was not impressed with this best in conference 3-3-5 and unit that WV ran. They had a hard time stopping the osu run
game... and the osu run game is not very good. WV has been consistent but relatively untested. Osu has been tested but inconsistent . West v is still dangerous. Especially with them hosting OU and Baylor. Morgantown is a tough place to travel to and a tough place to play.
OU looked better ... which is pretty easy to do against KU.
Auburn looked really good. The teams that I don't want to play right now are bama clemson Louisville Washington
and auburn.
Tennessee if falling apart. Hurd is transferring. Gotta be reflective of a bad locker room
Florida Georgia was awful. How fucking bad is the s e c east!?! For that matter .... how fucking bad is the entire league... with the exception of bama auburn and txam?
Esteemed cfbpc rankings come out tues.
Sooner2 rankings are clemson. Bama. Mich. wash. Lbille. Osu. Txam. Wiscy. Aub. Wv. OU. Utah. Neb.
It's weird. U have several two loss teams that I think will be ranked ahead of several one loss teams.
I'd bet those esteemed committee members will have bama auburn txam and Florida and lsu all top 12. Shit... I'd bet they have ole miss and Arkansas and Tennessee top 25.
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Post by daywork on Nov 3, 2016 19:59:31 GMT -5
So I just turned on the Oklahoma vs Iowa St game. WTF. 21-17 Oklahoma with 2 minutes left in the 1st half. I bet Okla -13 for the 1st half. How are they not blowing out the 1-7 Iowa St team??
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Post by Baph on Nov 3, 2016 23:58:23 GMT -5
So I just turned on the Oklahoma vs Iowa St game. WTF. 21-17 Oklahoma with 2 minutes left in the 1st half. I bet Okla -13 for the 1st half. How are they not blowing out the 1-7 Iowa St team?? Sounds like you need to do more homework before putting money on games. Peryne is still out injured. Mixon is out because he decided to park on a sidewalk and then tore up the ticket and threw it at the parking attendant. Iowa St has a solid defense and is a tough road game for everyone, every year. It's notoriously a trap game. OU has also struggled with consistency all season -- scoring in gashes and bunches and then falling asleep at the wheel for whole quarters or more. Iowa St is very hard to "blow out". Baylor beat Iowa St by 3 pts. OKST beat Iowa St by 7 pts. KState beat Iowa St by 5 pts. OU beat Iowa St by 10 pts. On the flip side, OU is not an elite team. OU beat Texas by 5. OU beat TCU by 6. OU beat Texas Tech by 7. OU beat Iowa St by 10. OU lost to Houston by 10. OU lost to Ohio St by 21. You looked at a 1-7 team vs. #14, but didn't dig into the situation enough. Nobody thought this was going to be a blowout. If OU gets both RBs back and plays this game in Norman I'll take your points. Otherwise, don't put money on @ Iowa St games, period.
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Post by daywork on Nov 4, 2016 7:23:45 GMT -5
LOL That's true. I did no research on this game. My capper texted me a pick for last night. So I made that bet then decided to make a couple more. So I took Oklahoma -13 1st half and took Arkansas State -5 for the game.
My capper was also wrong last night. He took Colorado -12.5 to UCLA.
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Post by Baph on Nov 5, 2016 21:53:43 GMT -5
Ohio St owning Nebraska, who now appears pretty over-rated. LSU surprisingly holding it's own with Bama. Notre Dame's worst season ever keeps rolling with a loss to Navy. Texas continues to confuse everyone with a solid win over Tech. OKST rallies to beat KState @ KState. Story of the day . . . TCU annihilates Baylor by 40 . . . the program appears to be completely falling apart before our very eyes. Unranked Arkansas spanks #11 Florida by 21. Trevor Knight goes out and A&M ends up falling to unranked Miss St.
Some incredible, dramatic, wildly unpredictable football today. What an absolute joy. Best sport in the world, folks: college fucking football.
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Post by daywork on Nov 5, 2016 22:58:34 GMT -5
Wow. Ohio St destroyed Nebraska. 62 to 3.
Baylor really hurt my betting day today.
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Post by Baph on Nov 6, 2016 0:03:12 GMT -5
Baylor is imploding. Rumors swirling. Defections. Decommits. People trying to transfer. Donors backing out of annual contributions. It's bad and I think the "off the field" stuff is finally creeping onto the field. TCU is not that good this year.
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Post by nickcage on Nov 6, 2016 2:01:39 GMT -5
Kirk had a 7 million dollar buy out before this extension. We gave him that big extension. Again. My dad is a big donor and gets email updates. He did make it sound like if Kirk and Iowa falter against Michigan--heads willl roll. Lots of boosters feel like Kirk doesn't get modern day recruiting. I've spoke my mind on that. I wouldn't be shocked if this is the end of an era here.
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Post by Baph on Nov 6, 2016 14:09:22 GMT -5
Quick look at next week:
Baylor @ OU . . . which seemed huge until the past two weekends. Baylor's gone from undefeated top 10 to now a 2-loss, out of the top 20 program in serious decline. WVU @ Texas will be interesting. WVU needs to win out to have a conf title discussion bid, and Texas continues to show flashes of decency, including beating Baylor. Not sure what to expect with LSU @ Arkansas. Also not sure what to expect with A&M . . . is Knight still out? Ole Miss comes to town this weekend.
Overall a very down week in terms of big games.
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Post by daywork on Nov 6, 2016 14:29:07 GMT -5
At quick glance. I'm interested in seeing USC vs Washington. I haven't watched much at all of Washington. USC is on a nice run right now.
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