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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 6:32:57 GMT -5
Does the vertical diet consist of large meals or does it incorporate IF or snacks
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Post by Baph on Sept 13, 2018 10:54:47 GMT -5
The idea, eventually, is to get you to eat a lot, which would take on the traditional "small meal every couple of hours" concept from body building. This methodology is geared toward performance athletes, however, and not a good idea for most folks. This is a power lifter or strongman wanting to keep size on or add size without adding fat, and fuel optimal performance.
Personally, I do not follow that model and I'm much more of the IF style, and I love that and understand there are some real benefits to it, but mostly it just fits with my lifestyle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 14:41:48 GMT -5
The idea, eventually, is to get you to eat a lot, which would take on the traditional "small meal every couple of hours" concept from body building. This methodology is geared toward performance athletes, however, and not a good idea for most folks. This is a power lifter or strongman wanting to keep size on or add size without adding fat, and fuel optimal performance. Personally, I do not follow that model and I'm much more of the IF style, and I love that and understand there are some real benefits to it, but mostly it just fits with my lifestyle. I can see that. Multiple meals for me is tough as well. Today I was too busy that I missed one of my meals. Screws up the whole cycle for the day. I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do with my diet. Jist don't want to go back to eating trash. Hitting the gym 3 or 4 times a week now doing mostly bro lifts because my body can't handle Oly lifts or even powerlifting anymore because of my neck pro lens. Do BJJ twice a week as well. I'm happy with how I'm looking and feeling now but I know I can't keep this diet up forever. The buddy I stole it from talks about all this energy he has from it and how great he feels. I feel zero difference to when I was doing IF and keto. He, don't feel much different than when I was jamming my face with candy all day.
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Post by Baph on Sept 13, 2018 16:28:09 GMT -5
I typically eat twice a day. Late lunch, huge dinner, I'll get a breakfast 2-3 times a week, but not daily, and I really don't stress about anything at all other than food types.
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Post by kennith on Sept 14, 2018 2:54:32 GMT -5
Personally i think the vertical diet is a bit of a gimmick
Nutrition is simple, its calories in vs calories out for weight loss and a tailored macro split to determine if its fat or muscle you lose.
It doesn't matter when you eat be it pre or post workout as glycogen replenishment takes 24hrs so as long as you're not exceeding your total daily energy expenditure your weight will remain the same and a deficit equals a weight loss.
A calorie is a calorie and a carb is a carb, the only major difference is satiety with complex carbs and proteins keeping you fuller for longer whilst getting additional nutrients and keeping insulin levels stable, if you eat lots of high GI food blood sugar spikes, insulin gets released and boom body stops burning fat and tells you to create more, the vertical diet looks like it leans towards low GI foods so offers some results from this.
The vertical diet is a gimmick in that it ensure's you clean your diet up and remove processed foods and offers very little more in my opinion, which in itself is actually a great thing but can be achieved with just common sense not a flashy name, the weight loss or appeared leaning out comes from two things, one you're paying attention to what you're eating so are less likely to over eat thus reducing calories unintentionally as the foods it promotes aren't loaded with hidden calories.
Secondly with the controlled levels of sodium and ensuring you remain in the 20g a day region for salt from the removal of processed foods and the likelihood that potassium levels aren't insufficient the body will regulate water more effectively and stop the over production of aldosterone which gives you that bloated watery look, you hold water in two places, know in extra cellular & intra cellular, aldosterone promotes extra cellular water retention which is the area between the muscle and the skin, this gives the fluffly looks, stable sodium & potassium levels means less extra cellular and more intra cellular where the muslce holds the water giving you that fuller more muscular look.
The water split between intra or extra cellular water is 70/30, the imbalance of this can be dramatic and throw off your looks constantly, this isn't just pertained to bodybuilding. Calories are king with everything, you eat to much you get fat, you eat right you stay the same, you eat less you lose weight!
But if it works for you go with it and i hope you continue to get the results you are as thats all that matters, it works, your happy and you can stick to it.
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Post by Baph on Sept 14, 2018 23:04:56 GMT -5
I'm makin a real confused face right now.
First of all, you say "it's real simple" then ramble on a bunch of shit I didn't understand and couldn't follow. So . . . it ain't real simple.
Secondly, the entire point of all of this, and of the vertical diet, is to optimize performance. Halfthor and Larry Wheels and Connor McGreggor don't care about their obliques. They care about performance. It's to be as big, strong, and powerful as possible without putting on bad weight, eating empty calories, or doing the Eddie Hall, a cheese cake a day diet. Performance is NOT about calories in vs calories out. And looking at nutrient density and fodmaps is not a gimmick. Your head is stuck in body builder land. This isn't a beach body diet -- it's a can I win World's Strongest Man diet. Can I keep my dead lift over 600 without being a fat ass and carb loading 24/7. And furthermore, calories = calories is patently false. Food types matter, and affect your body at the cellular level influencing things like insulin, inflammation, water retention, etc. All calories are not created equal and calories in vs calories out only matters if your sole concern is physique.
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Post by kennith on Sept 17, 2018 2:55:08 GMT -5
I'm makin a real confused face right now. First of all, you say "it's real simple" then ramble on a bunch of shit I didn't understand and couldn't follow. So . . . it ain't real simple. Secondly, the entire point of all of this, and of the vertical diet, is to optimize performance. Halfthor and Larry Wheels and Connor McGreggor don't care about their obliques. They care about performance. It's to be as big, strong, and powerful as possible without putting on bad weight, eating empty calories, or doing the Eddie Hall, a cheese cake a day diet. Performance is NOT about calories in vs calories out. And looking at nutrient density and fodmaps is not a gimmick. Your head is stuck in body builder land. This isn't a beach body diet -- it's a can I win World's Strongest Man diet. Can I keep my dead lift over 600 without being a fat ass and carb loading 24/7. And furthermore, calories = calories is patently false. Food types matter, and affect your body at the cellular level influencing things like insulin, inflammation, water retention, etc. All calories are not created equal and calories in vs calories out only matters if your sole concern is physique. I'm not stuck in bodybuilder land and a bit rich coming from you given you went full "Post an oiled up speedo pic, fag" in my contest prep thread pulling the alpha gorilla beat your chest i'm the big guy round here lame ass attitude... I'm 20 days out from that by the way, went with October 7th Show in south wales. Nutrition is as simple as you want to make it and a calorie is a calorie when it comes to a surplus or a deficit, you over eat by 500 calories a day 7 days a week you put a pound on, you reverse it and you lose a pound, macros will dictate the type of weight you lose, fat, water, muscle etc. You're stuck in power lifter world thinking bodybuilders don't eat for performance or functional strength either, you do understand how hypertrophy works don't you? I'm not pissing on your results, your commitment, your effort or your goals, you're a beast Baph and far stronger than myself and have zero ego problem in admitting that but I dont buy into the vertical diet being this grand new science and formula its being portrayed as, it lends itself to quite a few basic principles. Calories get turned into glycogen what ever the food choice (stored energy in the muscle) and apart from blood sugar spikes and insulin release from the higher GI foods which will promote fat retention and will increase fat stores on a calorie surplus do you think when you're lifting weights your body knows what made that glycogen its using to push the weights? It doesn't. For me the vertical diet just cleans sh*t up, removes lots of processed calories thus reducing intake and stabilises sodium & potassium. To not track calories to know consistently what your putting in your body to either adapt or adjust to your performance requirements is big flaw. I guarantee you now Larry Wheels & Hafor know how many calories they're on a day. Not dogging on you or your approach just merely the vertical diet is nothing new or revolutionary.
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Post by Baph on Sept 17, 2018 10:28:01 GMT -5
Let's clarify.
First, you took my comment about an oiled-up pic wrong. I'm not chest thumping. At all. I legit want to see your results and I support what you're doing. I've never done that, I know how hard it is, how scary it is, and I want to see how you did. If you took it that way -- it's not how I meant it. I'm serious.
Second, Vert Diet doesn't claim to be revolutionary. It acknowledges that it borrows from fodmaps, glycemic index, ketogenics, and other fields regarding insulin production, nutrient requirements, sodium levels, sleep studies, etc. It's basically a super simplified "starting point" for a performance diet where he went out and studied everything as a pro body builder for 20+ years, found what works, what doesn't, read all the research, and made a starter kit for everyone else to get you on the right track. That's it. How can you get the most out of your body with a SIMPLE diet that you'll actually stick to? That's the Vert diet. One of Efferding's more notable quotes was: the only diet that works is the one you follow. So part of the premise is that this is stripped down and simplified while still getting all your micronutrients and performance optimizing fuel (easily digestible, low gas, nutrient dense food types).
But again, for MOST Vert diet followers, the point of the diet is actually to put on size and increase intake gradually over time, adding lean body mass, and many of the high profile clients are elite lifters trying to get stronger and bigger, perform better, without having to eat like Michael Phelps.
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Post by Baph on Sept 18, 2018 7:52:34 GMT -5
I'll give you another example of why it doesn't all boil down to calories in vs calories out.
I farted last night. A nice, long satisfying toot. Did it again this morning. Pretty good one. That's SO fucking rare for me that I started racking my brain about what I'd eaten to cause gas. Imagine running so clean that two big farts are enough to cause you to scrutinize your diet for the past 24 hrs.
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Post by kennith on Sept 18, 2018 9:11:15 GMT -5
I'll give you another example of why it doesn't all boil down to calories in vs calories out. I farted last night. A nice, long satisfying toot. Did it again this morning. Pretty good one. That's SO fucking rare for me that I started racking my brain about what I'd eaten to cause gas. Imagine running so clean that two big farts are enough to cause you to scrutinize your diet for the past 24 hrs. I'm blasting farts out all the time at the moment but 300g of protein a day will do that to you, i'm being a bit of a hormonal douche bag in fairness Baph, on next to piss all carbs which drops again on sunday or calories atm, 20 days out and feeling it but all's good with the prep but seem to be reacting or over reacting to anything and everything, the Mrs cant do right for wrong but she gets it and has the patience of a saint so i'm lucky. drinking 10 litres of water a day so getting up 4 or 5 times a night to piss which is killing me haha! I do believe the vertical diet works, all the principles are sound and its a collection of overall disciplines that I pretty much adopt but i just track calories and macros, all my foods are low GI, i even try to keep proteins out like whey that spike insulin more so than other protein sources and go for egg whites and turkey steaks, i think its just more Stan commercialising it that's pissed me off as his diet is basic practice for a lot of body builders in prep but with a stricter calorie and macro approach, its like someone selling you your idea or reading a new book that reads identical to one you read last year. my diet atm is Breakfast: 500g of egg whites 25g of organic almond butter 30g of oats I blend this together and add 1g of xanthan gum and make pancakes out of them, i shit you not this is immense with some zero calorie syrup! Morning Snack: 200g of total farge 0% greek yoghurt Lunch: 100g of sweet potato 230g of turkey steaks100g of asparagus afternoon snack: 500g of egg whites 25g of organic almond butter 30g of oats Dinner 230g of turkey steaks 250g of broccoli 100g of asparagus Sunday I drop out the sweet potato and replace with zero carb noodles, will just be a filler as they're 95% water but gives the illusion of volume. The oats get dropped in half as well so will be on 50g of carbs a day total and around 1600 calories. Then following week all carbs are removed for 5 days to fully deplete glycogen levels before a 3 day carb load, muscles should then absorb and fully soak everything up and come in dry and full, got a diuretic in case i'm holding onto any water but should be ready. One major bit*h is halfway through the cut i found out i had an old pec tear and a crease across my right pec, been using acupuncture to fill it out but means my right pec is lagging my left and smaller but its not signigicant but just something i'll need to focus on in off season when i move up to classic as mens physique isnt my natural category and i've given up some mass to get into this division as its the best place to start for a first timer as more shows.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 18:30:44 GMT -5
That's sounds fucking horrible. Why would you torture yourself for a hobby? I mean, damn.
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Post by kennith on Sept 19, 2018 4:00:04 GMT -5
That's sounds fucking horrible. Why would you torture yourself for a hobby? I mean, damn. Redemption for lost and wasted opportunities in the past is the honest answer. Blew and wasted my talent for other sports and at the age of 36 those sports are behind me and I carry a sh*t ton of anger and regret towards myself for squandering my talent and not making it to the level I should have done and made some ££££... I see this as a final opportunity to look back in 10 years time and say man I smashed that and i maximised every ounce of effort, genetic potential and ability and surpassed myself. I see myself competing until im mid 40's and want to feel like i've really worked for it and set the standard for future comp preps. But yeah man its proving harsh but its all new stuff and i'll be up against kids 10 years younger than me but i blow pretty much every 21 year old away in the gym for aesthetics and no way does my body say 36! I'm pumped for it to be honest and even with the lack of sleep i'm still getting up to do fasted cardio, hitting my sessions 6 days a week and my diet is as good as it can be, now i just have to trust my coach and keep my fingers crossed it all comes together at the end which i'm confident it will.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 9:19:17 GMT -5
Good for you man. I get the wasted potential part. I feel the same way with basketball. I would have never been pro but probably could have gotten a scholarship somewhere for college had I not squandered my talent. My biggest regret (which isn't that big) was not taking an ammie fight when I was doing BJJ and kickboxing religiously. Now with a legit neck injury, I can't do it. My ortho doc told me I should watch even going on Rollercoaster. PT said I can't Oly lift or deadlift. Well, I could if I want to risk jacking my neck up.
I've accepted that I will neve have a 6 pack though. My wife would leave me and kids would hate me if I did what you do, lol. If I could even do it, that's dedication.
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Post by kennith on Sept 25, 2018 4:45:01 GMT -5
Good for you man. I get the wasted potential part. I feel the same way with basketball. I would have never been pro but probably could have gotten a scholarship somewhere for college had I not squandered my talent. My biggest regret (which isn't that big) was not taking an ammie fight when I was doing BJJ and kickboxing religiously. Now with a legit neck injury, I can't do it. My ortho doc told me I should watch even going on Rollercoaster. PT said I can't Oly lift or deadlift. Well, I could if I want to risk jacking my neck up. I've accepted that I will neve have a 6 pack though. My wife would leave me and kids would hate me if I did what you do, lol. If I could even do it, that's dedication. Show is a week Sunday, end is in sight and starting to get excited for it all now, have my peak week plan nailed down, some salt loading and water manipulation with a back end carb load and I should be good to go! Currently depleting and body is changing daily. Started using halotestin and baph if you’re not natty try this stuff, insane power and strength from the stuff driving me through sessions and keeping strength up despite zero carbs! It’s nuts! Strength with this stuff on decent calories would be unreal!
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