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Post by Baph on Jun 6, 2018 0:46:42 GMT -5
Stan Efferding is the trainer for guys like Eddie Hall and Halfthor Bjornson and many pro body builders and powerlifters. He's the founder of the vertical diet which is something I've been following for about six months now. I'm happy to report that in said time I've lost 50 fucking pounds while keeping about 90% of my strength. I've got abs for the fist time in years, and I'm still holding a lot of muscle mass (230 lbs) and strength (clean and jerk 320 lbs, bench 400+).
Essentially you choose a small number of food items that work well for you, nutritionally dense, digest well, etc., and you eat ONLY that. So, it's a vertical stack instead of a horizontal spread of food choices. Vertical diet.
For the past 6 months my diet has been 90% eggs, bacon, white rice, bell peppers, steak, oranges, carrots, blueberries, greek yogurt. All day, every day, 7 days a week. Once you get the hang of it, it's VERY simple and easy to follow, meal prep is a cake walk, and you get over the monotany of the repetitive menu fairly quickly. It's easy now, and I'll very likely stick with this, or some version of this, indefinitely. I eat as much as I want, whenever I want, and as long as I stay vertical, it's very easy to stay lean and strong with good energy.
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Post by kennith on Jun 6, 2018 2:32:12 GMT -5
Stan Efferding is the trainer for guys like Eddie Hall and Halfthor Bjornson and many pro body builders and powerlifters. He's the founder of the vertical diet which is something I've been following for about six months now. I'm happy to report that in said time I've lost 50 fucking pounds while keeping about 90% of my strength. I've got abs for the fist time in years, and I'm still holding a lot of muscle mass (230 lbs) and strength (clean and jerk 320 lbs, bench 400+). Essentially you choose a small number of food items that work well for you, nutritionally dense, digest well, etc., and you eat ONLY that. So, it's a vertical stack instead of a horizontal spread of food choices. Vertical diet. For the past 6 months my diet has been 90% eggs, bacon, white rice, bell peppers, steak, oranges, carrots, blueberries, greek yogurt. All day, every day, 7 days a week. Once you get the hang of it, it's VERY simple and easy to follow, meal prep is a cake walk, and you get over the monotany of the repetitive menu fairly quickly. It's easy now, and I'll very likely stick with this, or some version of this, indefinitely. I eat as much as I want, whenever I want, and as long as I stay vertical, it's very easy to stay lean and strong with good energy. A few strongmen at my gym follow this also and they're certainly leaning out without any obvious drop in strength, not reporting the kind of losses you have but 6 months 50lbs at say 26 weeks is 1.92lbs a week which is pretty decent and around that sweet spot for not dropping muscle mass. How are measuring the body fat reduction? callipers or just scales and visuals?
Do you get a calories allowance with it or you just eating till satisfied but remaining within those foods? Is salt part of it as well?
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Post by Baph on Jun 6, 2018 22:07:25 GMT -5
Yes, salt is a big component.
I was coming off of a heavy bulk, so the weight loss was pretty significant once I cleaned up the diet. Have not gotten into macros, calories, or any measuring. I eat when I'm hungry, and stay strict on the food types, but not amounts. But, it's VERY hard to over eat when it's clean food. You can gorge on pie and shit . . . but I've never eaten a steak and then said "I wish I had three more".
Body fat is largely eyeball. I have visible abs and I'm extremely vascular. I have calipers but honestly, I don't really care what my BF is if I look/feel like this.
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Post by kennith on Jun 7, 2018 2:53:39 GMT -5
Yes, salt is a big component. I was coming off of a heavy bulk, so the weight loss was pretty significant once I cleaned up the diet. Have not gotten into macros, calories, or any measuring. I eat when I'm hungry, and stay strict on the food types, but not amounts. But, it's VERY hard to over eat when it's clean food. You can gorge on pie and shit . . . but I've never eaten a steak and then said "I wish I had three more". Body fat is largely eyeball. I have visible abs and I'm extremely vascular. I have calipers but honestly, I don't really care what my BF is if I look/feel like this.
Get yourself some oil and posing trunks bro
Buts that's awesome man, I know what you mean about over eating on clean food and how hard it is, just exposes obese people and their eating habits because getting fat on clean calories is damn hard, gain any kind of weight on clean food whilst training is hard full stop, natty or not.
My diet is insane in respect to how clean it is, I didn't get on the August show I wanted to compete in, its one of the most popular amateur shows in the UK so October 17th is the show I'm now focusing on so I have 17 solid weeks to prep.
I'm going to carry on cutting till I get to my stage condition which I should be at in 8 weeks time, I'm then going to reverse diet and look to grow into the show. I'll then build some calories in each week and monitor BF/vascularity and weight and get that sweet spot where I'm filling out but not going up in BF then 4 weeks out drop back again to shave any fat I may have put on which will be minimal.
Been following Layne Norton principles so I'm not looking to drop water and sodium last minute screw that.
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Post by jamesod on Jun 12, 2018 9:07:01 GMT -5
Yes, salt is a big component. I was coming off of a heavy bulk, so the weight loss was pretty significant once I cleaned up the diet. Have not gotten into macros, calories, or any measuring. I eat when I'm hungry, and stay strict on the food types, but not amounts. But, it's VERY hard to over eat when it's clean food. You can gorge on pie and shit . . . but I've never eaten a steak and then said "I wish I had three more". Body fat is largely eyeball. I have visible abs and I'm extremely vascular. I have calipers but honestly, I don't really care what my BF is if I look/feel like this. Gary Taubes, the writer for Science who has studied nutrition a ton and written a lot about it (largely in favor of a very low carb diet) was the first person I heard talk about that. It's so true. I can eat a couple of pork chops that are absolutely delicious and think to myself "I couldn't eat another freaking bite" but if someone then put a pie in front of me ten minutes later I could probably eat two big pieces. Weird how that works but it seems universally true to me.
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Post by vegeta420z on Jun 12, 2018 21:26:41 GMT -5
Yes, salt is a big component. I was coming off of a heavy bulk, so the weight loss was pretty significant once I cleaned up the diet. Have not gotten into macros, calories, or any measuring. I eat when I'm hungry, and stay strict on the food types, but not amounts. But, it's VERY hard to over eat when it's clean food. You can gorge on pie and shit . . . but I've never eaten a steak and then said "I wish I had three more". Body fat is largely eyeball. I have visible abs and I'm extremely vascular. I have calipers but honestly, I don't really care what my BF is if I look/feel like this. You clearly need to learn how to cook a steak then.
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Post by Baph on Aug 12, 2018 19:06:15 GMT -5
Finally did a body fat test. Got the head trainer at the gym to do calipers on me. Seven-point pinch test. 10.8% body fat. I've been vertical for about 9 months now, and in that time I've gone from 275 lbs to 228 lbs, and probably lost 15% body fat. I have lost strength, as I said, but not catastrophically. Maybe 15% across the board, but other things, like running, gymnastics, mobility/flexibility, speed, endurance, agility, etc. have easily improved 15% and beyond. I ran a 4.8 40yd last week which, while not blistering speed, is pretty fucking good for a 39 year old 230 lb dude. There is no goddamned way I was running that 9 months ago. I can bang out 15 strict pull-ups. I can do a muscle-up. Walk on my hands. It's all coming back, largely because of improved range of motion in my upper body without all that bulk and mass, but also because of just being lighter and more athletic. I'm loving it. And jesus christ . . . I'm sleeping like a baby. 5' 11" people are not meant to be that big. Fuck, in hindsight, that was miserable. Granted, I did shit out a brutally-smooth 700# dead lift, but that's a path I care not to tread again.
Just noticed all the 15s. WTF?
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Post by vegeta420z on Aug 12, 2018 19:39:42 GMT -5
Finally did a body fat test. Got the head trainer at the gym to do calipers on me. Seven-point pinch test. 10.8% body fat. I've been vertical for about 9 months now, and in that time I've gone from 275 lbs to 228 lbs, and probably lost 15% body fat. I have lost strength, as I said, but not catastrophically. Maybe 15% across the board, but other things, like running, gymnastics, mobility/flexibility, speed, endurance, agility, etc. have easily improved 15% and beyond. I ran a 4.8 40yd last week which, while not blistering speed, is pretty fucking good for a 39 year old 230 lb dude. There is no goddamned way I was running that 9 months ago. I can bang out 15 strict pull-ups. I can do a muscle-up. Walk on my hands. It's all coming back, largely because of improved range of motion in my upper body without all that bulk and mass, but also because of just being lighter and more athletic. I'm loving it. And jesus christ . . . I'm sleeping like a baby. 5' 11" people are not meant to be that big. Fuck, in hindsight, that was miserable. Granted, I did shit out a brutally-smooth 700# dead lift, but that's a path I care not to tread again. Just noticed all the 15s. WTF? Serious question, do you think that this is sustainable long term? I used to weigh 300# and got down to 205# with a diet similar to what you described (That and lifting or running 6 days a week). But after hitting my goal weight i quickly got bored with raw veggies, fruit and chicken. And now i roller coaster my weight between 200 and 230. for two weeks of the month i eat whatever i want, rest of the month is super strict some times calorie restrictive and all clean real food. Sometimes when i'm getting back to eating whatever i want i feel really shitty and run down for about 3 or 4 days. Its like my body goes into shock eating all the garbage i do, when i do. I know this is probably not ideal but it lets me enjoy food and not get really big again. What do you think will keep you from getting bored with the vert diet? Do you just have an insane amount of will power? Or is there something else I'm missing.
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Post by Baph on Aug 13, 2018 15:19:36 GMT -5
Yes, I seriously do. I've been doing this the better part of a year and not only and I not getting burned out, but I'm enjoying it more, learning to spice it up, tweak it, and rotate out menu options.
I mean . . . medium rib-eye, cilantro rice, grilled bell peppers and zucchini . . . that's not exactly a chore. Bacon and eggs with oj every morning. When I cheat, as you described, it's immediate negative feedback from the gut. Immediate. I'm lean and energy is high, I sleep better, and my gut is extremely happy. I mean . . . weird thing to say, but I very rarely fart anymore. I don't think I have an insane amount of will power. It was definitely an adjustment period. But also, just thinking about the way I used to eat, now seems fucking disgusting. I will occasionally at out and end up with key lime pie in my mouth, but 90% of the time I'm vert AF and have no desire to deviate or quit, ever.
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Post by vegeta420z on Aug 13, 2018 21:34:46 GMT -5
Yes, I seriously do. I've been doing this the better part of a year and not only and I not getting burned out, but I'm enjoying it more, learning to spice it up, tweak it, and rotate out menu options.
I mean . . . medium rib-eye, cilantro rice, grilled bell peppers and zucchini . . . that's not exactly a chore. Bacon and eggs with oj every morning. When I cheat, as you described, it's immediate negative feedback from the gut. Immediate. I'm lean and energy is high, I sleep better, and my gut is extremely happy. I mean . . . weird thing to say, but I very rarely fart anymore. I don't think I have an insane amount of will power. It was definitely an adjustment period. But also, just thinking about the way I used to eat, now seems fucking disgusting. I will occasionally at out and end up with key lime pie in my mouth, but 90% of the time I'm vert AF and have no desire to deviate or quit, ever. Thats probably where i fucked up i kept it the exact same with little to no variety. Lost the weight super fast though but lack of variety is what has made it hard, Lost the weight in 2013 and am still holding on but when i eat like shit i do feel less energetic. Might be time for me to make some more corrections.
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Post by Baph on Aug 15, 2018 0:53:19 GMT -5
I mean . . . don't get me wrong . . . there isn't much variety . . . that's the whole essence of "vertical" nutrition. Rather than a wide horizontal base of 50 food types . . . you get a narrow vertical base of just 8-10 food types, so by nature this is repetitive, but you've got to be creative, use butter and lime juice and cilantro and chicken stock and find ways to make some subtle variety. But it IS subtle. Switching form ground beef to steaks to bison is pretty fucking subtle, but it IS change, right? Switching from mashed sweet potato to baked to fries is subtle. Switching from bell peppers to zucchini to squash is subtle. For a few weeks there, instead of putting bell peppers in my rice/beef mix, I put rice/beef mix in my bell peppers (stuffed peppers AND Yackoff Smirnoff joke). Finding farm eggs instead of using WalMart eggs. Little things you can do. But at the end of the day, it's remembering WHY you're doing it. Nutritionally dense, easily digestible food types, and that's ALL you eat, because it's fuel, not fun, and we're looking for optimal performance and health and longevity. I want to be 10% body fat, brutally strong, with raging boners at 40 . . . not a broken down old mule in the McDonald's drive thru with a fake viagra script and a bad back.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 15:47:37 GMT -5
I've been hitting Keto since July 4th. I've lost 15 lbs, hovering right around 205. The way I bring variety is using different hot sauces. Eggs with salsa one day, eggs with cheese and Frank's hot sauce another, then I will switch to a hot garlic sauce. Dinner is usually steak/chicken/hamburger and 2 veggie sides. I've also started intermittent fasting with two meals, one at noon and the other around 6.usually eat a couple handful of nuts right before 8 pm to hold me over until noon the next day.
Went hog wild over the weekend because it was my 10 year anniversary with the old lady. Crab legs, shrimp crab cakes, pizza, cannoli etc. Shit my guts out. Started again and was 209 the next day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 18:17:18 GMT -5
I know this isn't about diet but I finally hit something at the gym today. I was just doing dumbbell presses and something clicked. I felt awesome again. Got a good pump, jumped up, and felt like I could headbutt a wall. It's like I could feel testosterone pumping in my blood again. I'm nowhere near as big or as strong as I was at my peak but this is the first time in years that I haven't felt weak and feeble. It was almost like a runners high but just from clanging weights. Makes me want to wake up first thing and go tomorrow. I won't ever be able to hit my goal of a 500 lb deadlift because it just isn't worth putting my neck/health at risk but at least I will look like I can hit a 500 lb deadlift, lol.
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Post by Baph on Aug 17, 2018 11:46:50 GMT -5
Something that jumped out at me last night when watching The Magic Pill on Netflix, which I STRONGLY recommend . . . these diets are all essentially identical and represent a paradigm shift in nutrition culture. Keto, Paleo, Vertical, Adkins, HFLC . . . squint your eyes a little bit and they're indistinguishable from each other. A growing chorus of scientists, dietitians, athletes, and researchers are all coming to the same conclusion via different paths, essentially . . . the human body does not do well in that low fat, high carb environment that the food pyramid's been advocating since the 1950s when some doctors made the erroneous conclusion that fat in your arteries came from fat in your food (it actually comes from sugar), and we all bought it without batting an eye and started shoveling wheat and corn down everyone's throats like it was going to cure cancer . . . except cancer is up 15% and obesity is up 25% and heart disease is at an all-time high and still the leading cause of death despite a 50 year campaign to change out eating habits in exactly the way they proposed would save us. "Fat Free" eating is a death sentence, and it's so impossibly ingrained in our culture that people literally look at you like you're stupid when you say it out loud. Fat is good for you. It should be the biggest portion of your diet. It's the whole wheat and grain that's killing you and making you fat, lethargic, and sick. Complete 180 from everything your government and the trusted institutional experts have been drumming into our collective heads since the 1950s. And shocker of all shockers to find the agricultural industry and the pharmaceutical industry financially backing all of the legislation and studies that got us here.
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Post by ocmmafan on Aug 21, 2018 12:16:35 GMT -5
What do you drink on he vertical diet? Some OJ and water? Can you keep caffeine?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:15:31 GMT -5
What do you drink on he vertical diet? Some OJ and water? Can you keep caffeine? Just drink water ya Nancy... I go the girl route and buy those zero calorie flavored water. Gives it some flavor and you can use the caffeine from it as well. Many diet Nazis say no "Franken-drinks" but if you need a caffeine boost, fuck it. Or just drink coffee with no sugar.
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Post by ocmmafan on Aug 21, 2018 17:00:47 GMT -5
What do you drink on he vertical diet? Some OJ and water? Can you keep caffeine? Just drink water ya Nancy... I go the girl route and buy those zero calorie flavored water. Gives it some flavor and you can use the caffeine from it as well. Many diet Nazis say no "Franken-drinks" but if you need a caffeine boost, fuck it. Or just drink coffee with no sugar. I broke my serious diet pepsi addiction this year and now drink mineral water with either lime, or with advocare spark (different flavors and has caffeine). I try to stick with vodka/mineral water/lime if I am drinking. Just that tweak makes a big difference in the bloat and general feelings. I think diet pepsi might be worse than all the other shit I try and avoid/minimize - bread, sugar, chips/snacks, desserts. I have been eating pretty clean but did read a PDF off the internet on the vertical diet and the logic seems sound. Having teenagers around means we always have to have snacks, but not all are healthy. Takes some level of commitment to avoid them all and stick to almonds and beef jerky for snacks, so I do cave. I think I will try the vertical diet though. I can eat lean beef as a main staple and adding back in rice regularly would really help improve my options. I am not super strict keto or low carb, but pretty focused on it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 17:25:35 GMT -5
I see Baph's point on food for fuel but you gotta enjoy your food a little or you would be a vegan. Because Vegans hate good food. As long as you are mostly clean, cheat meals aren't going to hurt you, nor will the occasional desert. It will fuck with you a little bit if you are doing keto though.
I think the only medically backed, healthiest/effective diet is the Mediterranean diet. If you are worried about health, not 6% body fat. Lowest rates of heart disease and longer life expectancy with lower cholesterol levels to boot. The biggest thing is portion control.
I'm trying to get down to 200 then I am going to lighten up on being strict keto and slowly add some carbs back into my diet and focus on small portions of pasta but mostly fish, cheese, and vegetables. Still have that cannoli once a week or something if I'm being strict in the gym or extra cardio. Starting BJJ back hopefully next week so the added calories burned will outweigh the occasional dessert..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 17:30:24 GMT -5
Not a diss on the vertical diet or any diet, I appreciate Keto but don't think it is a lifestyle that is conducive to where I am in my life right now. Not having to cook two separate dinners or two different takes on the same meal. Easier to adopt a healthier meal plan to everyone in the house without making them go keto with me. That's just me opinion for my situation though. More power to those with more willpower, lol.
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Post by Baph on Aug 21, 2018 23:06:15 GMT -5
What do you drink on he vertical diet? Some OJ and water? Can you keep caffeine? I drink water, oj, cranberry juice, whole milk, coffee, tea.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 11:48:44 GMT -5
What do you drink on he vertical diet? Some OJ and water? Can you keep caffeine? I drink water, oj, cranberry juice, whole milk, coffee, tea. I didn't want to start another thread but wanted to ask you some advice. As I've stated, I've been working out more lately and my strength is coming back, albeit slowly. I haven't done cardio at all but I am planning on going back to BJJ tomorrow morning. Do you have any mobility drills that you use to improve flexibility, ROM, and the like? I am wanting a balance this time around and I know if I just continue the lifting without mobility, my ROM and flexibility will go to shit. I may add in some agility drills as well. My plan is to be the most balanced I have been between strength, flexibility, athleticism, and endurance. I would rather be a B at all those than an A in any and have something like flexibility suffer. Hope that made sense.
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Post by Baph on Aug 26, 2018 14:27:10 GMT -5
It's interesting . . . there's actually no empirical evidence that stretching does anything other than reduce muscle performance immediately after. Dynamic stretching and agility drills seem to be the most effective, and if you're running, jumping, rolling, putting everything through good ROM on a regular basis, you should be fine. As for me, due to the months and years of powerlifting, I will specifically target some hip tightness such as couch stretch, figure four stretch, etc, just to keep those hips free of inflammation and really hitting end range of motion, as well as regular massage and foam rolling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 15:56:12 GMT -5
Yeah. The only static stretching I so is my pecs and hips. I've never really done it other than dynamic stretching. I think, even 7 or 8 years ago I was doing dynamic stretching per your advice. I could head kick people 6'4" though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 11:16:48 GMT -5
Dropped to 201 today. Down from 224.my goal is to hit 200,not concerned with the decimal place. Sunday is my little girl's 4th birthday party so I will end up cheating. Going to try a different diet of 6 meals a day that are smaller and see how I feel after a week or two. If I feel alright, I'm going to loosen the diet a tad and start trying to put on quality muscle.
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Post by Baph on Sept 9, 2018 1:41:13 GMT -5
Well done.
The nice thing for me is that I've gotten to a place now where this whole routine is literally effortless. I don't count carbs, macros, portions, nothing . . . I strictly control food TYPES, and that's it, that's my only job, and everything else just magically falls into place. I weigh 227. I'm 10% BF. I work out 3-4 days a week. I have no fucking clue what my daily calories, macros, or anything else is, and I don't care. It's an optimized equilibrium. I love it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 7:09:33 GMT -5
Well done. The nice thing for me is that I've gotten to a place now where this whole routine is literally effortless. I don't count carbs, macros, portions, nothing . . . I strictly control food TYPES, and that's it, that's my only job, and everything else just magically falls into place. I weigh 227. I'm 10% BF. I work out 3-4 days a week. I have no fucking clue what my daily calories, macros, or anything else is, and I don't care. It's an optimized equilibrium. I love it. I actually did the same thing with keto. Just ate low carb food. No sweets. Cut out soda. Cut out alcohol. Still smoked some weed every once in a while. Didn't pay attention to caloric intake. Worked out 3 times a week, sometimes 4 but then started BJJ for cardio. The diet I am about to start will be much more strict but I'm only going to trial it. If it is too much of a pain in the ass, I'll stop it.
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Post by Baph on Sept 9, 2018 13:37:38 GMT -5
That's my whole deal: no stress.
I literally don't have the time, energy, or attention span to track, measure, weigh, count, or tote Tupperware . . . and even if I do, I won't stick with that for more than a few weeks, months at most, because it's a chore. Here, I can literally eat when I'm hungry, drink when I'm thirsty, have moderate intensity workouts 3-4 times a week, and look and feel great. I feel like after years and years of tinkering and trialing I've kind of got it all dialed in at this point, and it's shocking how simple it all is, really. I've almost been trying too hard this whole time. Making things too complex.
Cut sugar and most carbs, lift weights but don't over train, get your heart rate up a couple times a week, stay hydrated and make sleep a priority. It's that fucking simple.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 14:29:57 GMT -5
That's my whole deal: no stress. I literally don't have the time, energy, or attention span to track, measure, weigh, count, or tote Tupperware . . . and even if I do, I won't stick with that for more than a few weeks, months at most, because it's a chore. Here, I can literally eat when I'm hungry, drink when I'm thirsty, have moderate intensity workouts 3-4 times a week, and look and feel great. I feel like after years and years of tinkering and trialing I've kind of got it all dialed in at this point, and it's shocking how simple it all is, really. I've almost been trying too hard this whole time. Making things too complex. Cut sugar and most carbs, lift weights but don't over train, get your heart rate up a couple times a week, stay hydrated and make sleep a priority. It's that fucking simple. What do you do for your workouts? Are you still doing powerlifting/O lifting? Is white rice and steak your staple?
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Post by Baph on Sept 10, 2018 15:07:34 GMT -5
Workouts have evolved a bit, but at it's core it is and always will be, essentially, power lifting. I do more "bro" stuff now, and some very selective and finely tuned crossfit, and a bit of old school conditioning, like sled pushes and sprints.
The amount of steak, eggs, bell peppers, oranges, white rice, and sweet potatoes I eat in a week cannot be over-stated. It's probably 90% to 95% of my diet, right there. Occasionally I'll get into a sausage, avocado, zucchini phase just to spice things up. But yes, day in, day out, red meat, white rice, bell peppers x infinity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 18:42:19 GMT -5
I think I'm going to adopt this with a little modification. Instead of just steak and rice, I'm going to do different meats on different days. Steak and rice one day, chicken thighs and rice, and sometimes hamburger. Breakfast will probably still be eggs n shit and throw in a salad with lunch. Otherwise, it will be simple to stick to.
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